Mark Driscoll: The Trinity What?

Far be it from me to tell Mark Driscoll how to run his religious businesses.  But I have to say if I was a tither or someone who gave an offering to The Trinity Church, I would feel a bit slighted.

Take for instance the production studio recently purchased by The Trinity Church religious business. That nonprofit paid $740,000 for a nifty studio to serve as an office for his other religious nonprofit business, Real Faith.  I’m not a megachurch pastor, but $740,000 is a lot of coin. But The Trinity Church had that laying around and Driscoll used it (since he alone decides those kind of things) to get himself a studio.

But you know what? He didn’t even give the givers at The Trinity Church a shout out. Witness this June 3rd email to his supporter list.

Real Faith “has acquired a studio space.” No tip of the cap to The Trinity Church. Just a passive voice.

He says here on June 3rd that God “just put something in front of us [Real Faith].” Strange. The Trinity Church bought the space back in March. Former director of security Chad Freese told me that Real Faith director and Driscoll’s oldest daughter Ashley Chase told the former owner that none of the old furniture would be needed since she had already ordered new everything for the space. I wonder who paid for that? And why is Driscoll still fund raising as if he just “acquired” it?

So many questions. It probably is all legal and such, but I can’t escape the impression that The Trinity Church functions as the warm up act for The Real Faith, which is The Real Show. What kind of sweet deal do you have to have to have your church shell out $750,000 in tithes and offerings so you can have a custom studio for you to run your other religious business and not give them any credit?

40 thoughts on “Mark Driscoll: The Trinity What?”

  1. Periodically, I feel the compulsion to remind ourselves that whatever Mark Driscoll is—predatory narcissist, of course; cult leader, yep; the wolf Jesus warned you about, for sure—he is also a familiar, unoriginal, predicted and predictable byproduct of theism. Yes, the warm and fuzzy elixir of religious faith is actually poisonous, and Christians are not well positioned to see this because of the laundering of human desire into divine virtue that takes place when we claim to know God.

  2. Periodically, I feel the compulsion to remind ourselves that whatever Mark Driscoll is—predatory narcissist, of course; cult leader, yep; the wolf Jesus warned you about, for sure—he is also a familiar, unoriginal, predicted and predictable byproduct of theism. Yes, the warm and fuzzy elixir of religious faith is actually poisonous, and Christians are not well positioned to see this because of the laundering of human desire into divine virtue that takes place when we claim to know God.

    1. Funny, it seems that the harshest critics and most relentless exposers of Driscoll’s fraud, the ones who pursued the truth at any cost and eventually forced him out of his fiefdom in Seattle are…theists. Not atheists and certainly not 3rd rate atheist trolls who like to incite Christians on discussion boards. Funny how that works.

      1. Friend, I don’t know who or what you’re shooting at, but if you are handing out steerage credentials to “atheist trolls” and and you are defending Christianity then I think the subtext is lost on you. You’ve missed the plot, and you can’t see what spirit I seek to reflect.

    2. What are you talking about? He teaches straight through books of the Bible. I have been a Christian for 30 years, moved to Scottsdale and attend The Trinity Church. He is a good preacher and stands boldly for the truth of the Word and salvation through faith in Jesus our Lord and Savior. I am concerned about what I am reading of what goes on behind the scenes but I have no issue about what is preached from the pulpit. And if he has an anger problem and is abusive and controlling of the staff or in certain situations with his daughter, I still come against the constant accusation of him being a cult leader. There is nothing that happens in the regular life of the church that is any different from other Bible believing churches.

      1. Keep attending Trinity if you like, but there is no shortage of “good preachers” out there or pastors who teach straight through the books of the Bible. I stick with Episcopal or other liturgical churches where complete passages from Psalms, the Old Testament, from the Epistles and gospels are read every Sunday; those readings cycle through the entire Bible. The pastor then preaches a sermon tying 2 or more of those passages together. None of my pastors has authorized spending $740,000 on a media studio or is spending time building his own “platform”.

  3. Mark Driscoll has an ego problem, of which this is just another example. Never mind the people who helped, HE gets all the praise.

    1. I go there and have my concerns. I appreciate you being specific that he has an ego problem. And apparently an anger problem. The reality is is that he is a very good Bible preacher and that is why people come. The worship and children’s ministry are also quite good. I appreciate you not smearing the entire congregation like everyone else.

    2. I go there and have my concerns. I appreciate you being specific that he has an ego problem. And apparently an anger problem. The reality is is that he is a very good Bible preacher and that is why people come. The worship and children’s ministry are also quite good. I appreciate you not smearing the entire congregation like everyone else.

    3. I go there and have my concerns. I appreciate you being specific that he has an ego problem. And apparently an anger problem. The reality is is that he is a very good Bible preacher and that is why people come. The worship and children’s ministry are also quite good. I appreciate you not smearing the entire congregation like everyone else.

      1. There is a bigger problem here. What does it say about the situation if the person who preaches so well has issues which disqualified him from ministry at a former church? Now we learn these issues are still active. Doesn’t it feel like pretend church? You all pretend the Bible is effective to correct character and make change but it isn’t actually doing that? Re-read your comments. That is what I get out of your contributions here. What then does pastoral character matter? Just hire an actor to preach sermons and a staff to create an entertaining program. Why pretend it is all real and effective? Just entertain people and let those who are harmed go away, maybe to give up on faith altogether. You could hire people to be baptized and give testimonies. If the main event doesn’t have to be real, then why does any of it have to be real?

        1. My guess is that “Let there be truth” was not aware of the severity of the issues surrounding Driscoll and is now just waking up to them. At the same time, she feels judged because she is a member/attendee of the Trinity congregation and from her perspective as a rank-and-file attendee (and not an insider or known to the Driscolls) she found the church and its ministries to be positive. It is arguably true that this is going to be the case in many large churches, where many attendees exist on the periphery of the church and as such do not have the same experience as those who are more involved with the church.

  4. That Driscoll continues to behave in arrogant, abusive and generally jerk-like ways doesn’t surprise me: a bad tree produces bad fruit. What I find much more surprising is the crowds who seemingly flock to applaud him while he does it, and indeed pay for him to continue.

    1. People flock there because he is a very good Bible teacher, the worship is good, the people are friendly and the children’s ministry is good. The vast majority of people have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. There’s no applauding bad behavior.

    2. People flock there because he is a very good Bible teacher, the worship is good, the people are friendly and the children’s ministry is good. The vast majority of people have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. There’s no applauding bad behavior.

      1. A couple of quick things in response:

        • “He is a very good Bible teacher”. The most generous thing I can say about this is that it’s moot. When you have a teacher who has in the past loudly and publicly taught people in his church that “God hates you” and referred to women as “penis homes”, the claim that he is a “good Bible teacher” becomes rather difficult to defend.

        Perhaps what you mean is that he’s a good (engaging, sharp, clear, witty) communicator. Maybe he is. But being a good communicator and being a good Bible teacher are two different things.

        • “The vast majority of people have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.” Sorry but I find this unconvincing. With the extremely high degree of notoriety surrounding Driscoll’s past history at Mars Hill and the ease of finding out about his past and present activities courtesy of the internet, ignorance really isn’t much of an excuse.

        1. Most of these things I had never heard of until very recently. And honestly I don’t really care if he has said some stupid things in the past of which I do not know the story. If I hear it from the pulpit now, I would respond differently. I have had other favorite Bible preachers that people have gone after with one story or another, but I go by what I see for myself.
          The average churchgoer is busy raising their families and not researching their pastor online.
          It seems to bother everybody that he is a good Bible preacher. But doesn’t it make sense that the reason he has big churches is because he is actually a good Bible teacher? And he is smart, knows his history and teaches Bible in context, using Greek and Hebrew meanings, cross references, etc – It is some of the best preaching I’ve heard in 30 years. I get that you don’t like him and think he is a hypocrite. I know some of you here are not Christians, but I hope the people who are are praying that God would have His way with the situation.

        2. Most of these things I had never heard of until very recently. And honestly I don’t really care if he has said some stupid things in the past of which I do not know the story. If I hear it from the pulpit now, I would respond differently. I have had other favorite Bible preachers that people have gone after with one story or another, but I go by what I see for myself.
          The average churchgoer is busy raising their families and not researching their pastor online.
          It seems to bother everybody that he is a good Bible preacher. But doesn’t it make sense that the reason he has big churches is because he is actually a good Bible teacher? And he is smart, knows his history and teaches Bible in context, using Greek and Hebrew meanings, cross references, etc – It is some of the best preaching I’ve heard in 30 years. I get that you don’t like him and think he is a hypocrite. I know some of you here are not Christians, but I hope the people who are are praying that God would have His way with the situation.

        3. Most of these things I had never heard of until very recently. And honestly I don’t really care if he has said some stupid things in the past of which I do not know the story. If I hear it from the pulpit now, I would respond differently. I have had other favorite Bible preachers that people have gone after with one story or another, but I go by what I see for myself.
          The average churchgoer is busy raising their families and not researching their pastor online.
          It seems to bother everybody that he is a good Bible preacher. But doesn’t it make sense that the reason he has big churches is because he is actually a good Bible teacher? And he is smart, knows his history and teaches Bible in context, using Greek and Hebrew meanings, cross references, etc – It is some of the best preaching I’ve heard in 30 years. I get that you don’t like him and think he is a hypocrite. I know some of you here are not Christians, but I hope the people who are are praying that God would have His way with the situation.

          1. “And honestly I don’t really care if he has said some stupid things in the past of which I do not know the story.”

            We’re not talking about someone who has let slip a few questionable comments now and then. We’re talking about someone who has a well documented history of abusive leadership at multiple levels, causing great harm to many individuals and churches, not to mention to the name of Christ, and culminating in him walking away from his own church rather than humbly submit to a biblically based program of discipline. If you choose to ignore or not to care about such things, well, that doesn’t reflect terribly well on you.

            “But doesn’t it make sense that the reason he has big churches is because he is actually a good Bible teacher?”

            I would say it rather makes perfect sense that the reason he has big churches is because he’s very good at getting people to buy what he’s selling. And the fact that he convinces people to believe that actually it’s all just because he’s a really good Bible teacher is testament to just how good a snake oil salesman he really is.

            “I get that you don’t like him and think he is a hypocrite.”

            Again, that’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of documented fact.

            “I know some of you here are not Christians”

            I’m a Christian, and it’s precisely because I’m a Christian that it pains me to see charlatans like Driscoll dragging God’s name through the mud through his actions and leaving a trail of bodies behind him.

            “I hope the people who are are praying that God would have His way with the situation.”

            I tend to think God’s way is not to have ego-driven power-trippers lording it over and getting rich off a vulnerable and exploited flock. But God will no doubt allow Driscoll to continue along his chosen path until perhaps one day the wheels come off in even more spectacular fashion such that he no longer can. I just hope not too many more people get caught up in the wreckage before that happens.

          2. I was responding to the two phrases that you quoted. This keeps happening that I respond to what somebody writes but then they act like they said something different. I was clearly not responding to the entirety of the accusations made against him.

            “Buy what he is selling”?!?! I give up. Although none of you have ever been to a service or listened to a sermon, you all are committed to believing that he is peddling some cult like manipulative message and we are dopes sucking it up, when if you listened to him, you would see that he preaches the Bible, verse by verse chapter by chapter. I am not saying that to excuse his behavior, but to defend why people attend the church. But it’s useless so I give up. Blessings.

          3. “I was clearly not responding to the entirety of the accusations made against him.”

            Instead you are deliberately avoiding them.

          4. “Although none of you have ever been to a service or listened to a sermon”

            A big assumption there, and a false one, as it happens. I’ve listened to a fair few of his sermons, and I’d wager I’m not the only one here who has.

            “if you listened to him, you would see that he preaches the Bible”

            You harp on about “preaching the Bible” as though that’s the ultimate measure of a pastor/teacher.

            Thing is, the Bible is a very mixed bag and, in many places, rather a blunt instrument. I could teach about all manner of terrible things and still claim to be “teaching the Bible”.

            The fact that Markie boy teaches through texts line by line says absolutely squat about the actual message he’s conveying. And when that message includes elements like “God hates some of you” and that women are “penis homes”, it’s really hard to convincingly claim that he’s a “good Bible teacher”.

          5. I haven’t really gotten publicly involved yet but it’s hard to read through the comments and say nothing. I am very glad that the children’s ministry is healthy and fruitful. However, when I know what has happened behind the scenes, especially in the worship department, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to stay silent. Abuse in the church is not something that should be ignored just because it didn’t happen to us or because we didn’t hear it from the pulpit. A pastors character from the pulpit and in private is important. Emotional, spiritual and psychological abuse in the church should be taken seriously!! Turning a blind eye because of charismatic preaching is heartbreaking. Look at the facts and listen closely to the teaching and then ask is this toxic or tov? How leadership treats people publicly and privately matters! And if your wondering, I am a Christian and I did attend and lead at both Mars Hill and Trinity for years. I pray daily for truth to be brought to light and for God’s healing in this situation.

          6. Why would you attend Trinity if you knew what happened at Mars Hill?

          7. That is a good question. I wish I had a simple answer. We believed, much like you, that what seemed like solid Bible teaching and what we thought was a repentant heart excused past abusive behavior. It was when we learned more last summer in the interviews with Sutton Turner and Dave Bruskus and started seeing similar patterns emerge that we knew it was time to leave. However, we have very close ties to the family so it made it a bit more complicated. I ask myself often how we ignored/missed and often defended/excused abusive behavior. My heart breaks for the abuse my family has endured and for the many other families that have been abused by this toxic church culture.

        4. People DO EXIST who are not internet savvy due to preference, disability, poverty, recent immigration or advanced age. In other cases, Internet connection/availability can be spotty and difficult to obtain in rural areas. You shouldn’t be judging people because they haven’t extensively researched Mark Driscoll via the internet. If people are unaware of the controversies and problems surrounding Mark Driscoll, why not just provide them with information without judging them?

          1. I’m not “judging” anyone; I’m simply pointing out the facts about Driscoll and his behaviour, which is now well documented going back more than two decades.

    1. Is it necessary to be so petty? It discredits the real arguments.
      “The idiom is usually written chomping at the bit, and some people consider this spelling wrong. But chomp can also mean to bite or chew noisily (though chomped things are often eaten, while champed things are not), so chomp at the bit means roughly the same as champ at the bit.

      In fact, chomp, which began as a variant of champ, is alive in English while the biting-related sense of champ is dead outside this idiom, so it’s no wonder that chomping at the bit is about 20 times as common as champing at the bit on the web. Champing at the bit can sound funny to people who aren’t familiar with the idiom or the obsolete sense of champ, while most English speakers can infer the meaning of chomping at the bit.“

  5. I suspect that most of the attendees, as there are no members, of this atrocity could care less. Celebrity is king and for those living in my old neighborhood Mark is the biggest one close by. Never mind that he has assault rifles in his office. Never mind what an outrageous and paranoid jerk he is. Who cares about him being a white-washed septic tank leading everyone in his church into a ditch. They do not have to get vaccinated so the anti-vaxers come in large quantities. He ignores all common sense precautions in a pandemic, so those who are foolish in this way show up. He acts like he closer to God than everyone while being totally unChristlike in character which makes many Christians very comfortable. He loves Mammon and tells everyone that they can love it and God too so they follow his example. There is no conviction of the Holy Spirit only a religious show that people are very willing to give to so they can feel religious while not knowing who Christ actually is. The fact that this is popular and drawing crowds just shows how carnal the people are. They do not give an F about what is real, they want an earthly king and they got one just as wicked as has ever been.

    1. Colourfully put – but essentially a correct assessment IMO.

      Yes, badly-behaved leaders can so easily be a ‘comfort’ to us: they let us off the hook in so many ways.

      Too many leaders of religious businesses appear to be well on the psychopathic spectrum and, unfortunately, there does seem to be market for ‘comforting psychopaths’ to exploit, which the likes of MD do very effectively. They often do what they do very well (and we might even sometimes be a little jealous of them, weighed down as we are by scruples!); Christianity it ain’t!

      True religion comforts (in the true sense of the word), but often not in the way we might want it to …

    2. Colourfully put – but essentially a correct assessment IMO.

      Yes, badly-behaved leaders can so easily be a ‘comfort’ to us: they let us off the hook in so many ways.

      Too many leaders of religious businesses appear to be well on the psychopathic spectrum and, unfortunately, there does seem to be market for ‘comforting psychopaths’ to exploit, which the likes of MD do very effectively. They often do what they do very well (and we might even sometimes be a little jealous of them, weighed down as we are by scruples!); Christianity it ain’t!

      True religion comforts (in the true sense of the word), but often not in the way we might want it to …

    3. Sigh. You should come and witness it and then make an assessment about who we are as Christians. Although I get accused of being a Driscoll apologist, I mainly come in here to defend the smearing of an entire congregation of hundreds, maybe thousands of people. I try to delineate between what sins Driscoll may be guilty of with what the average churchgoer experiences, since these things are happening behind the scenes and people are not researching their pastor online and if I wasn’t online and had some connections to this comment platform, I would have absolutely no idea any of this was going on. People are busy raising their families and working and come to church on Sunday and hear a great Bible-based sermon. It really aggravates people, but there must be a reason that Driscoll keeps growing churches. The fact is is that he is a smart, knowledgeable, articulate gifted Bible preacher. People are sincere Christ followers and give an F about what is real. Ultimately, it is true that they/we may become disillusioned in time if it turns out Driscoll is not living what he preaches, but please stop slandering an innocent congregation.

    4. You say that you “suspect that most of the attendees (of Trinity Church)…” then go on to make assumptions about these attendees and slander their character. I don’t attend Trinity Church, and I don’t know anyone who does. But you are making judgments against an entire congregation of people, presuming that all of this unfavorable information about Mark Driscoll is known to the Trinity congregation. You also presume that the Trinity congregation knows about this unfavorable information AND they concurrently and willfully continue to serve under Driscoll’s pastoral leadership because they are unrepentantly carnal. Clearly, multiple presumptions have been made by you. You are judging an entire group of people with a broad brush stroke, and this is not biblical. By the way, some members and former members of Trinity Church are already speaking out against Driscoll and the church leadership. Perhaps you haven’t given them the benefit of time and experience.

      1. This info is all over the web. I started reading about it in the summer of 2014. Save your criticism for those so not well informed over 7 years. I suppose that you would criticize the O.T. prophets for speaking so plainly of what their contemporaries were doing.

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