In August, John MacArthur Denied COVID-19 at Grace Community Church; In April, He Said Members Had Been Hospitalized

On August 30, John MacArthur told his congregation that “nobody in our congregation has ever been to the hospital with this [COVID-19].” According to MacArthur’s own words earlier this year in April, that is not true. When MacArthur explained to Phil Johnson why Grace Community Church was not meeting in person in April, MacArthur told Johnson (entire video is here):

The other thing that we talked about with the elders was if we defy this and if we say we’re going to meet anyway, we run the risk of exposing people to this illness needlessly. And why would we want to do that? Because this is a health issue, this is a health crisis. And since like any church, many of the people in our church are older. We wouldn’t want to expose them to that. We’ve only had, as far as I know, and this was up to yesterday, we’ve only had one couple in our church in the Spanish ministry who actually got the coronavirus. But that couple, and not an older couple either, wound up in the hospital because it was such a virulent experience for them.

MacArthur acknowledged that in April they had a younger couple very sick in the hospital. This awareness helped move MacArthur and the elders toward the decision not to have indoor in-person church. MacArthur said at the time it wouldn’t be right to put people in harm’s way. Watch:

Everything MacArthur said in April is still true.  It is still a health crisis. He still doesn’t know who is in his congregation who might be infected. However, now he clearly doesn’t understand the extent of the problem. He has been telling his congregation that there is no pandemic and only .0001 of Californians have COVID-19. Because he has a false understanding of the situation, he has taken his church in a potentially dangerous change of course.

Addendum

Since this was published several anonymous communications have come in alleging more cases of COVID at Grace Community Church. I am not able to confirm them but I have learned some interesting, to me at least, additional information.

One of the elders of GCC is Jon Scott. He is a physician who practices at a Kaiser Permanente location in Santa Clarita. In March, that same location was closed due to concerns over COVID-19. I don’t know what that means but it as a physician, surely he was aware of the ramping up of medical manpower to handle cases related to COVID-19.

Since I discovered the video from April, I have wondered how Pastor MacArthur became radicalized so to speak. How did he come to mouth QAnon talking points about the coronavirus? Today, I found this from a communication from him in May:

I noticed today that a report came out from the CDC which is the official group the Center for Disease Control, and they said that actually the number of deaths that have occurred during this COVID epidemic is half of what has been recorded, half. So we have been operating with numbers that are unrealistic. It has also come to light – and I think this is very, very interesting – it’s also come to light that half of the deaths occur to people in hospitals and aging homes where you have older people, because they’re the more vulnerable population. So the reality is that the vast majority of the population is really unaffected or mildly affected by this entire thing. The most dangerous place you could ever go turns out would be a hospital, because when you go into a hospital the staff there don’t have a vaccine against this. They’re exposed to it. And if there are other compromised patients, as there are in a crowded hospital, then the coronavirus is circulated in that hospital.

So we’re starting to learn that the folks who are just out in the world doing what we do, we’re the safest of all. The place you don’t want to be is, of all places, in a hospital, because that’s where the highest incidents of this infection at its most serious level takes place. So a lot of things coming out of this that I think are starting to remove the fear and help us to understand that we were told some things that just were not true about the affect of this.

By this logic, you could say you catch cancer at the hospital. That’s where the serious cancer is. Don’t go to the hospital if you have a stroke, you will just get worse. After all, that’s where the most serious stroke patients are.  In fact, if you avoid the hospital, by this way of thinking, you can avoid all kinds of awful things people have in hospitals. People die there.

Clearly his thinking began to change here as the quality of his sources and information deteriorated.

The latest I heard, and I heard a report today from a highly respected medical authority who basically said the death rate will be essentially the same as seasonal flu, no greater than that. We now know that. And in retrospect we would say if we’d known that at the beginning we certainly wouldn’t have shut the world down to the degree that we have and did such disastrous damage to so many lives. But having said that, we have to understand that the Lord allows certain things and certain things are the foolishness of men even at their best efforts; so here we are. But I just want to remind you that this is temporary, that this is not nearly as deadly as we were told, that the rate of death is about like the seasonal flu, it’ll run its course; and hopefully in a few weeks, we’ll come back together and we’ll join each other again and have a great celebration.

Estimates of death rates have varied widely but his certainty about his expert is misplaced. One of the best studies of fatality was conducted via random sampling in Indiana and found that COVID is indeed more deadly than the flu. MacArthur now seems so entrenched in his mindset that he may not be able to back away from the conspiratorial place he has gone.

54 thoughts on “In August, John MacArthur Denied COVID-19 at Grace Community Church; In April, He Said Members Had Been Hospitalized”

  2. This is a very interesting piece, Warren. I think we all understand that we want to ‘ease up’ on restrictions where it is safe to so, but M’s change is not ‘easing up’: it is a radical shift.

    in both the United States and England (which has taken a significantly different approach from, for example, Scotland) – two nations that, in the view of many, including myself, have not handled things well – ‘second wave’ body counts have been lower than those during the first wave, but still horribly significant nonetheless.

    On a related matter: there seems to be a claim knocking around that ‘lockdowns kill’. This does not appear to be borne out by the experience of the United Kingdom, where ‘excess deaths’ in much of June and July were actually negative, despite there being tens of people dying each day from the virus. And if it is the case that lockdowns can cause death then we can do something about that by being more generous to those in greatest need.

    1. I agree with the overall sentiment of your comment, but England’s second wave only just started with a big spike in infections just the past few days. I would be shocked if the death rate matches that seen in April, but it’s still too early to tell, and we’re heading into flu season which complicates things.

      As for excess deaths, there was a report in the Guardian today saying there could have been up to 10,000 more deaths in the UK over the summer caused by people being reluctant to seek medical help for fear of catching Covid. But even if that’s true, nobody is arguing that lockdowns don’t have consequences — it’s all a question of balancing the risks, and the unfettered spread of covid-19 during the first few weeks of the pandemic would have caused far more deaths without a lockdown.

      1. I made the awesome discovery during April on what constituted an emergency in my eyes…and it was literally in my eyes. (I’d started seeing shooting lightning in my eyes.) I got a same-day appointment at an ophthalmologist because I thought I had the beginnings of a detached retina based on the experience a friend had a few years back with a detached retina. It turned out to be an ocular migraine and the innards of my eye looked JUST FINE.

        That said, I had to be coerced by the suggestion that my prescriptions wouldn’t be filled to set up an appointment at my primary care doctor back in July. So you can see where my priorities lay. Possibly going blind? Emergency doctor visit. Diabetes checkup? Just fill the scrips, I’ll come in when things have blown over.

        1. Funnily enough, I had the same eye issue last year — only in my case the same-day appointment revealed the flashes were caused by the eye’s vitreous gel rubbing against the retina, which isn’t serious.

          But yeah, risk assessment is a tricky thing. After 9/11 as many as 2,000 Americans are thought to have died because they chose to drive long distance instead of fly in the mistaken belief that driving was safer. Many people believe the flu vaccine is more dangerous than catching the flu, etc.

          Last month I decided that my long delayed dental checkup was worth the risk, but I’ve yet to pull the trigger on my yearly physical. Being completely rational about risk is really hard!

          1. I would think that at this point if you don’t feel your dr. is capable of taking the proper precautions against spreading covid-19, perhaps you should consider another dr.

        2. I had a similar eye issue several years ago — flashes and floaters. Put me under surveillance at an opthamologist’s office for a couple years, dilation and retinal checks every six months until things stabilized. I’m extremely nearsighted, and heard in my twenties that could make me prone to retinal detachment.

          Then a year or two ago, my first ocular migraine. NO headache at all, just the fortifications messing with my vision. Happened only twice, a year apart, hasn’t repeated since.

      2. It is the case that, overall, ‘excess deaths’ exceed the number of deaths caused directly by Covid-19, and probably by around 10,000. However, in the months of June and July, there were fewer deaths overall than the average for 2014-19 (see the Office for National Statistics website for details); ‘excess deaths’ were positive again in the first half of August, then went negative for the second half.

        Interestingly, the winter flu toll for the winter of 2019-20 was lower than usual, I believe. But now the main concern, as you correctly suggest, is what happens in the winter of 2020-21. My hope is that measures taken to curb the spread of SARS-CoV-2 will have a positive impact in respect of flu and other infectious diseases, but we shall see …

        It is surely the case that some people have perished because they did not have the treatment they needed for other illnesses or conditions, either because they avoided presenting themselves or because the NHS, which was under enormous strain in March and April, was not able to provide treatment in a timely manner. This is, of course, very sad indeed.

        Lockdowns are not nice, and surely have an impact on people’s health (especially mental health) and well-being, not to mention the economic impact. But there is plenty that we can do to at least mitigate the impact on the most vulnerable. And, as you have said, simply ‘letting the virus rip’ could have led to a real catastrophe, especially, I suspect, for those who live cheek-by-jowl in poorer areas. The UK is not Norway or Sweden – exceptionally advanced countries in terms of their ‘socialisation’ (I once visited a housing project in a ‘poor’ area of Oslo – the brickwork was pristine, the glass in the windows gleamed and the flowerbeds were stunningly beautiful!).

        England’s second wave started around the end of July (that is when cases started to rise significantly), and currently appears to be most evident in the North (new cases in, for example, southern inner London – Wandsworth + Lambeth + Southwark + Lewisham – have actually fallen over the last two weeks).

    2. Well MacArthur believes only 9000 have died. That was a few weeks ago so probably 10,000. Only 6 pct actually died of Covid you know

    3. Probably a bit more than that, but your point is well made: it would be an order of magnitude lower than the death toll so far from Covid-19. And let us not forget that many Covid deaths have occurred during hot weather when deaths from flu are very few in number.

      1. Which makes the coming flu season even more ominous.
        The fear of flu & COVID peaking at the same time.

        Spanish Flu spiked in a second wave during the winter. But that was before air conditioning, where summers were outdoors or ventilated to the max because of the heat and winters were spent closed off indoors from the cold. Nowadays A/C means that summer heat is also spend closed off indoors with recirculating air – similar conditions to winter. So COVID will probably show less of a second distinct wave in winter and more of a continuous wave from summer.

        And the precautions to prevent COVID spread (masking, keeping distance, hand hygeine, maximum outside-air ventilation, and avoiding indoor/crowded areas) would also lessen the spread of flu, because both virii spread in a similar manner – primarily airborne, secondarily fomite (contaminated surfaces). And keeping up Vitamin D levels helps the immune system in general, so it should help with both.

        1. Indeed – that should be our hope: factors that and measures taken to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2 will also help with reducing the spread of other aerosol-borne pathogens.

          I’m certainly taking my Vitamin D supplement! It is one of those things of which we generally do not get enough! I’m struck by the relatively small impact of SARS-CoV-2 in many parts of Africa, one of the reasons for which could well be the abundance of sunlight, helping people living there to produce there own Vitamin D. (I would add that countries like Sierra Leone – which had to deal with the Ebola virus as few years ago – have reacted in a very intelligent manner to the pandemic. We may well have things to learn from them …)

  4. I’d like to know what GCC’s plan is for when a member has a positive Covid test. Will there be an internal email to the flock? Will anyone outside of GCC membership know? Is there a legal obligation to inform LA County Public Health?

    1. MacArthur was so evasive about the two confirmed cases from The Shepherd’s Conference back in late February or early March, I could see him asking his flock to keep it oh-so-very confidential. But, of course, that kind of secret is impossible to keep. They couldn’t keep the cases from the conference quiet.

      1. And keeping it oh-so-very confidential would be oh-so-very unethical.

        It is totally unrealistic to think that thousands of unmasked people congregating indoors week after week will not result in Covid infection.

        1. I have been blocked on Twitter by several individuals who attend or support the stance of this church. They honestly expected me to believe that no one at Grace had gotten it over science. It was crazy and sad

          1. Don’t you know GAWD (and PASTOR) was supernatually protecting them?
            Did any of them quote Psalms 91:7 to you?

      2. Good example of how things get out of proportion: Linn, your negative speculation spreading half-truths and gossip. Shame on all of you.

  5. JM seems to think he is an “expert” about Covid 19 and is therefore willing to put
    his flock and the local community in harm’s way. But everyone’s an expert these days. Not necessary to get advanced degrees in virology or epidemiology, public health or go to medical school. But why doesn’t that apply to his one and only expert interpretation of the Bible?

      1. Nothing beats wine moms and boomers on Facebook when it comes to reliable info on a pandemic. All you have to do is read the title of an article and then post it to your wall to know the truth.

        1. “Wine moms”?
          First time I’ve ever heard that term.
          Is it like “instant Karen — just add alcohol”?

  6. With such reckless theology on full display, it’s easy to see why John MacArthur was forced to step down from his leadership position at The Master’s University. His institution remains on probation and is still at risk of being stripped of accreditation by the WASC Senior College and University Commission.

    Since John MacArthur failed to display honesty in response to student sexual assault victims years ago at The Master’s University, it’s no surprise that he fails to display honesty regarding a global pandemic today. MacArthur’s evangelical theology in action: self-serving self worship at the direct expense of others.

      1. Well, MacArthur and his followers will be shocked to learn that thousands upon thousands of churches have been able to comply without complication or complaint.

        MacArthur and his followers will furthermore be outraged to learn that Jesus had no problem speaking outside, and never once demanded a million-dollar tax-free auditorium with stage equipment, worship band, sound technicians, and other staff.

      2. Well, MacArthur and his followers will be shocked to learn that thousands upon thousands of churches have been able to comply without complication or complaint.

        MacArthur and his followers will furthermore be outraged to learn that Jesus had no problem speaking outside, and never once demanded a million-dollar tax-free auditorium with stage equipment, worship band, sound technicians, and other staff.

        1. Those thousands and thousands of churches you mention that have complied are DEFINITELY WITH complication AND complaint!! I’m supposing you do not attend church. If you did, you would know this difficulty first hand. John MacArthur has a huge following and it required a large buidling, etc. You must understand that…..requires no explanation. And btw, he probably holds outdoor services sometimes, just like “thousands upon thousands” of other churches, just for the beauty of it:)

          1. Do you not understand otrotierra’s point? the point is that thousands of churches are capable of complying with the health orders and showing caring for their congregants and others outside the congregation, by working to stop the spread of covid-19. Why can’t MacArthur do the same thing?

            Further, you are saying that if MacArthur did hold outdoor services it would be “just for the beauty of it”, not out of concern for his fellow man? Seems yours and otrotierra’s opinion of MacArthur aren’t as far apart as you think.

          2. 🙂 I wish I kept in touch with this string 4 months ago and saw your post, Ken. It put a smile on my face….people putting words in other people’s mouths, just makes your comments less valid.

    2. I love replies like these…..you’re trying to sound intelligent, but you repeat a mantra you must have heard somewhere and you think it makes you sound brilliant: “self-serving self worship (WHAAT??!!??) at the direct expense of others”. FYI: he is not forcing others to attend worship – they go on their own accord. You may want to return to church. Wouldn’t hurt but the sounds of your comments:)

  8. MacArthur is in training to be a GOP Senator-or perhaps seeks a job like the fact proof Scott Atlas or Failey Polygraphinany the Mouth of Sauron (oops Trump Press secretary).

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