You’re So Vain, I Bet You Think This Crisis is About You

Just when I think there is a bottom, there isn’t. Today Donald Trump tweeted the following:

As I write this, 137,025 people have tested positive for COVID-19 and 2418 Americans have died. Trump brags about his ratings as if the crisis was about him. Narcissism was named after the myth of Narcissus who was smitten with his own image. Perhaps it is time for a new term derived from Trump. He is so sure that he is the center of everything and that it is him we are tuning in to see.

At the least, I have some additional illustrations of how narcissists operate. Many narcissists know enough to hide their self-absorption. A wise and discrete narcissist would realize how self-centered it would seem to appropriated one of the most catastrophic events of a generation and make it about how great his television ratings are. But not Donald Trump. He is just out with weapons-grade narcissism. He doesn’t see the issue. He is a star and everybody who matters will admit it. If they don’t see it, they are lame and don’t matter anyway.

For those who don’t get the title of this post:

Carly Simon – You’re So Vain

151 thoughts on “You’re So Vain, I Bet You Think This Crisis is About You”

    1. Of course it delayed the checks going out. I suspect part of the reason they haven’t gone out already is because of this nonsense.

  1. Anderson Cooper 360°
    @AC360
    ·
    18h
    California Governor Gavin Newsom offers strong praise for Pres. Trump’s handling of the coronavirus in relation to his state saying, “every single direct request that he was capable of meeting, he has met… I have to be complimentary, otherwise I would be simply lying to you.”

  2. “I could tell you this; this whole country was tied up for two and a half months on the impeachment. Nobody Congress was doing what they had to do. Their eyes were not on where it should have been. They should have been investigating what was happening with this pandemic had started in China. They were not aware of it because so they were so focused — The New York Times, and The Washington Post and everybody else was so focused on the impeachment, and you know, I think that everybody including the president, his eyes were focused on it also. I think that we lost sight of what was really happening around the corner, now it caught up with us.”

    — Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus

    “this whole country was tied up for two and a half months on the impeachment”

    *Actually it’s been 31/2 years <<<-------

    1. Ahh the defense that Trump is not capable of handling more than one major issue at a time. Trump’s ego didn’t let him use that excuse. Even Breitbart reported that

      Further it wasn’t Congress’ job to monitor what was happening in China. That is what the intelligence agencies are supposed to do. Agencies run by the Admin branch, not the congressional one. Also, those agencies DID THEIR JOBS and reported the potential crisis to Trump, who ignored their warnings.

      Do keep up the attempts to shift the blame, because that only highlights how this whole situation was mis-handled. And people will remember it was Trump who was saying “its not a big deal” back in Jan/Feb and even March.

    2. Wow, a big time supporter of Trump offers his opinion that Trump isn’t to blame for a huge failure under his watch. Instead, he blames Democrats, who, last I checked, were only in charge of one branch of government. Well, that convinces me, said no one.

      Let’s go over the timeline, shall we. Trump was acquitted on 2/5. That’s the same day the Diamond Princess cruise ship was quarantined in Japan. You may remember reading something about that. Meanwhile, Trump was downplaying the danger of the virus for weeks. Saying as recently as 3/9 that “The Fake News media & their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power to inflame the Coronavirus situation.” Then, on 3/17 he says “I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic”. But, sure, if only the Dems had been nicer to Trump, maybe he would’ve been on top of it.

      But even excepting that, even if the timelines directly conflicted, should we really let alleged impeachable crimes slide because we don’t want distractions? Is that really what you’re advocating? Were you against the Clinton impeachment because everyone, including the president, might have their eyes focused on it. And then they might lose sight of what’s really happening around the corner, and it might have caught up with us? For example, if 9/11 had happened right after Clinton’s acquittal, I’m sure you would have placed blame squarely on the Republicans, right?

      Finally, let’s remember who’s fault is it that Trump tried to strong arm Ukraine into providing electoral aid? If that’s not impeachable, then nothing is impeachable. If that had been Obama doing that, you would be up in arms. Trump, only has himself to blame for that.

    3. Wow, a big time supporter of Trump offers his opinion that Trump isn’t to blame for a huge failure under his watch. Instead, he blames Democrats, who, last I checked, were only in charge of one branch of government. Well, that convinces me, said no one.

      Let’s go over the timeline, shall we. Trump was acquitted on 2/5. That’s the same day the Diamond Princess cruise ship was quarantined in Japan. You may remember reading something about that. Meanwhile, Trump was downplaying the danger of the virus for weeks. Saying as recently as 3/9 that “The Fake News media & their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power to inflame the Coronavirus situation.” Then, on 3/17 he says “I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic”. But, sure, if only the Dems had been nicer to Trump, maybe he would’ve been on top of it.

      But even excepting that, even if the timelines directly conflicted, should we really let alleged impeachable crimes slide because we don’t want distractions? Is that really what you’re advocating? Were you against the Clinton impeachment because everyone, including the president, might have their eyes focused on it. And then they might lose sight of what’s really happening around the corner, and it might have caught up with us? For example, if 9/11 had happened right after Clinton’s acquittal, I’m sure you would have placed blame squarely on the Republicans, right?

      Finally, let’s remember who’s fault is it that Trump tried to strong arm Ukraine into providing electoral aid? If that’s not impeachable, then nothing is impeachable. If that had been Obama doing that, you would be up in arms. Trump, only has himself to blame for that.

      1. Timeline.

        Ronna McDaniel✔
        @GOPChairwoman

        THREAD.

        Since Democrats in Congress keep attacking @realDonaldTrump, let’s compare records.

        JAN 7:

        CDC established a coronavirus incident management system, two days before China announced the outbreak.

        Pelosi began Week 3 of withholding her sham impeachment articles. (1/8)

        17.8K
        10:20 AM – Mar 11, 2020

        JAN 21:

        The CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to confront coronavirus.

        What were Congressional Democrats focused on?

        Writing their opening arguments for their bogus impeachment trial. (2/8)

        JAN 27: A tale of 2 press conferences.@Mike_Pence outlined the administration’s efforts to work with China to counter coronavirus.

        Chuck Schumer demanded that more time be wasted with new impeachment witnesses. (3/8)

        JAN 31:@realDonaldTrump initiated travel restrictions from China, which the experts have praised as a critical decision to slow the spread of coronavirus.

        Democrat leaders called him “xenophobic” and “racist.” (4/8)

        FEB 9:

        The Trump administration’s Coronavirus Task Force met with governors to coordinate response efforts.

        Chuck Schumer was busy soliciting inspectors general to open NEW investigations into @realDonaldTrump. (5/8)

        FEB 24:@realDonaldTrump requested additional funding to fight the coronavirus.

        Democrat Jerry Nadler demanded more documents from AG Barr to continue his political vendetta against the Trump administration. (6/8)

        MAR 2:

        The Trump administration secured commitments from top pharmaceutical companies to develop a vaccine to fight coronavirus.

        Democrats began “quietly discussing moving ahead with punishments for individuals who defied subpoenas” in the impeachment sham. (7/8)

        5,516
        10:26 AM – Mar 11, 2020
        Twitter Ads info and privacy
        2,568 people are talking about this

        Ronna McDaniel✔
        @GOPChairwoman
        Replying to @GOPChairwoman
        BOTTOM LINE:

        While @realDonaldTrump and his administration have been focused on protecting YOU, Democrats in Congress have been focused on attacking HIM! (8/8)

        7,722
        10:27 AM – Mar 11, 2020

        1. Obviously you only see what you want to. You missed how when Trump asked for funding in late Feb, it was the congressional democrats who responded that he wasn’t asking for enough money to deal with the problem.

          See, dems in congress could both manage the impeachment AND deal with the coronavirus.

          However, do keep saying how the situation was mishandled, because everyone will remember, Trump was in charge of it, and he kept saying it wasn’t a problem.

          1. January 21, 2020: Fauci claimed the coronavirus was “not a major threat to the people of the United States.”

            February 26, 2020: Fauci said, “Travel restrictions become almost irrelevant because you can’t keep out the entire world.”

            February 29, 2020: Fauci claimed there was no need for Americans to “change anything what you’re doing on a day-by-day basis” during an interview with the Today Show.

            March 9, 2020: Well after concerns of the spread of the novel coronavirus had aroused, Fauci suggested that it was okay to take a trip on a cruise if you were a “healthy young person.”

            March 9, 2020: Fauci said the decision to hold a campaign rally the next day would be a “good judgment” if it were held at a venue where there was no “community spread.”
            March 12, 2020: In contrast to his February 26 remarks, Fauci said that he believed certain travel restrictions have “absolutely” helped with the prevention of the spread of the coronavirus.

            “Sorry Fake News, it’s all on tape,” Trump said in response. “I banned China long before people spoke up. Thank you @OANN”

            https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/13/dr-anthony-fauci-repeatedly-downplayed-coronavirus-threat/

          2. You posted Breitbart first saying they were facts. They are just facts… doesn’t matter where facts come from.

          3. No, DoctorDJ was showing even a site like Breitbart acknowledged that Trump’s ban was flawed, not that Breitbart was a reputable source.

          4. So you basically agree with Trump’s Travel Ban you just wanted it stricter so US citizens and green card holders were kept from coming home. Got it.

          5. Again you are incapable of seeing anything other than what you want to see.

            Trump is a racist. People have been pointing that out for a very long time. the racist accusations are based on far more than his suspending travel from china.

            Trump was in charge. Trump was the one with access to pertinent medical and intelligence warnings about the spread of the virus. Trump was the one who misrepresented that information and the danger of the coronavirus.

            the committee Pelosi created is intended to oversee the handling of the $2 Trillion relief package, and how the government responded to the pandemic. it is good that you recognize Trump is the person to be held accountable for most of that.

            But do keep pointing out how the pandemic was mishandled. Because people will remember that Trump was in charge and he kept saying it wasn’t a problem.

        2. You didn’t address my argument at all. My point in giving the timeline was to address the timing part of Bernie Marcus’s insincere argument. Trump had weeks after his acquittal to deal with the Virus. Instead, regardless of what the CDC did, Trump, personally, spent those *weeks* downplaying the significance of the threat. He spent those weeks denying reality. Insisting that things were getting better when they were getting worse. What do you have to say about that?

          But, let’s be clear. Fact, the national response to the pandemic so far has been terrible. *You* referenced a tweet from Bernie Marcus explaining that away by saying Trump (or anyone else) couldn’t provide an effective response to the virus because of the impeachment. Now, you’re referencing a twitter thread about all the things the Trump administration did to address the virus. So, first, make up your mind. Is your argument that the so far nationally embarrassing response to the COVID pandemic is due to all the things Trump did or all the things Trump couldn’t do?

          1. Will take all steps to safeguard Americans from this (coronavirus) threat.
            — Trump SOTU Feb 4 2020

            And Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi tore up his speech. Americans saw her do it, some of which probably died. Sad.

          2. Trump SAID he would safeguard americans, but what did he actually DO about it?

            Nobody died because Pelosi tore up Trump’s speech. however, people did die because of Trump’s lies and misrepresentations about the threat of the coronavirus.

    1. That is a bald-faced lie. The “number one” person on Facebook is Cristiano Ronaldo, a Portuguese soccer player. Trump can’t STAND to be seen as coming in second in anything, so he lies about it, always.

  3. Many narcissists know enough to hide their self-absorption. A wise and discrete narcissist would realize how self-centered it would seem to appropriated one of the most catastrophic events of a generation and make it about how great his television ratings are. But not Donald Trump. He is just out with weapons-grade narcissism.

    I honestly think what’s happened here is that tribalism has completely overwhelmed any sort of in-group self awareness. If you took away Trump’s political affiliation and the nationalism. If you could show people a possibly made up crisis in some made up foreign country and you showed them a leader who acted like that and used Trump’s real quotes, I honestly believe most people would rightfully be appalled. It would be painfully obvious what a megalomaniac the guy was Almost a parody of narcissism, too over the top to be real.

    But, when you add in the politics and the nationalism, it becomes circle the wagons time. Most conservatives can’t admit anything Trump says is wrong. The will make every excuse. He “misspoke”, he “exaggerated”, he “made his point poorly”, or just twist the facts to pretend that he’s right. Anything from having to admit their political enemies have any valid points. Trump doesn’t have to hide his narcissism. His tribe will excuse all his failings for him and then claim is it their enemies who are the real narcissists.

  4. Welcome to politics. There are plenty on the left trying to do the same thing. No successful politician will let any disaster go to waste. Look at things that governors are saying about themselves. How about big city mayors? This narcissism thing is why I think we voters are total and complete idiots. We will not vote for anyone unless they are a flaming narcissist and no one wants to run unless they have this huge lust for power. Even here most of the comments are people shooting down the narcissists in the other party while they raise up their own. What a total waste of time and energy…

    1. Really? Our governor Inslee gives frequent briefings I never hear him mention himself, yet Trump has called him many things including a snake.

    2. That’s not true in Maryland, certainly. Our governor, Larry Hogan, Republican though he is, was on this early. He declared an emergency the minute there were COVID-19 cases, closed non-essential businesses, and prohibited gatherings of more than 10 people. Converting buildings for emergency overflow from hospitals is under way. He seems genuinely concerned about doing what is best for the people of Maryland to get us through our share of the pandemic, not in feathering his own nest or promoting himself. He’s quite a contrast to the present occupant of the White House, and Marylanders, Democrats (like me) and Republicans alike, support what he is doing.

  5. He has always looked at this latest gig as just another Reality TV show, and teevee ratings are all he cares about. Fortunately, he had someone there from trumpteevee to make sure those great ratings were mentioned – asking a “nice’ question, instead of behaving like an actual journalist. You do that, and you get pointed at, yelled at, and have your mic taken away. All hail our Mad God King The Donald.

  6. Yes. America now has more cases of this Corona Virus than any other nation- so, that should require the president* to begin to refer to this Virus as the “American Flu”- or more appropriately as the “MAGA Flu”- because he (Trump-Drumpf) owns it.

  7. Warren, you know more about how the mind can be disfunctional than your readers do. Do you have any comments regarding Trump from his earlier years, when he’d be on talk shows (as seen in numerous old video clips) and he appeared to be kind of shy, hesitant, somewhat humble, etc. Obviously something changed. Was it 9/11, which transformed many into hardcore conservatives? Was it the ratings of his reality show “The Apprentice”? Was it a personal moment of pain? Of course there’s no way to really nail it down, but I wonder if there was a transformational moment of some sort, including possibly when Obama became president and Trump helped to spread birther movement silliness, etc. No one knows.

    Also, you commented: Many narcissists know enough to hide their self-absorption. Since one of Trump’s other disfunctions appears to be a lack of empathy towards others, is he a combo of narcissism AND psychopathy??? Is psychopathy a subset of narcissism?

    I’ll understand if you’re reluctant to offer armchair insights.

    And, finally, as an old art history student, I’ll leave this here. It’s Salavdor Dali’s Metamorphosis of Narcissus. I love how there are so many ways to interpret the subject matter, especially within the current context of “Narcissist-in-Chief”. The work’s imagery of ‘calcification’ speaks volumes to me.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e3dc4703d64e6045e48bea91f6b7003592f81ca235554d483bf44819c2f10322.jpg

    1. “Alex, I’d like ‘Syphilitic Dementia’ for $1000.”
      (No, I wouldn’t, but it would explain a lot.)

      Trump will Trump. We knew his nature when the Electoral College gave him the job, and hope-against-hope, he’s not disappointed at every turn. (His is one obituary I will relish reading.)

      What I cannot fathom are my neighbors, the sad little Deplorables (I’M LOOKING AT YOU, LITTLE K) that support and defend this amoral, despicable, repulsive, senile, lying racist, sexist, petulant, infantile, islamaphobic, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, bigoted, heteronormative, white supremacist, KKK-supporting, David Duke-endorsing, nazi, Hitleresque, fascist, clownish, clumsy, stupid, chauvinistic, piggish, rude, ignorant, science and climate change-denying, hateful, snake oil-selling, demagogic, triggering, insensitive, brash, dangerous, excuse of a human being.

      [Some adjectives stolen: https://www.accredited-times.com/2016/11/28/30-adjectives-to-describe-trump/%5D

        1. if you take it and fold it between the lines “CORONOVIRUS” and “GUIDELINES” makes it more bearable.

        2. I have to admit, when it came, I laughed and tossed it, unread, in the trash. I’d rather look up the CDC guidelines online than credit them to Trump.

        3. I took a big black sharpie and crossed out the first line. Since he called our governor a snake when he was one of the first to call for these actions.

    2. Shy? Hesitant? Like on all those Howard Stern shows where he showed his absolute contempt for the female half of the human race, and speculated on the future breast size of his infant daughter, Tiffany?

    1. He wouldn’t be the first Republican president to want to get rid of Fauci for telling the truth.

    2. I can almost hear his aides pleading with him. Firing Fauci would further rend whatever tissue of credibility they imagine he still has.

      So of course, he will do it. It’s inevitable.

      1. Even Trump isn’t stupid (or narcissistic) enough to try firing Fauci now. Maybe in a couple of months he might try it, but not now.

        1. You might be right. It depends how scared he gets. He does live his life in fear.

          1. Or who is whispering in his ear… I’m beginning to see from some charismatic/pentecostal types that they “sense in their spirit” and have had dreams (jeremiah johnson) that Fauci is a bad man… a “rat” trying to take down the “anointed one” (trump)… (my cousin, one of these really “spirit-filled” types, knew the first time she saw him in a news conference that “there was evil behind this man…” What in the world Fauci has done to deserve that I have no idea…and of course they don’t “feel” the same way about trump – he’s “anointed!”… but this seems to be bubbling around in the NAR world, in which Paula White is part of…
            (See also rightwingwatch which has a story or 2 on the threat towards Fauci…)

          2. They’ve had to up Fauci’s security detail.

            Never forget that about 40% of the country is insane.

          3. “What in the world Fauci has done to deserve that I have no idea.”

            Perhaps she heard that Fauci came out in support of AIDS research in the late 80s. Or maybe simply because he dared contradict Trump.

          4. I have since asked her what he’s done… I’m awaiting an answer although I’m not confident I’ll get one… “feelings in your spirit” are easy to have and spout; less easy to explain or back up with evidence or be held accountable for.

          5. I am beginning to think God has sent a deceiving spirit to people like that.

          6. Yep… I didn’t drag the conversation too long, but she never came back with one thing that Fauci had actually done that would warrant her opinion of him. not one thing. Her only authority was her gut feelings (ie in charisma world – the “spirit”) and the rambling, crazy dream/prophesy from some charismatic “prophet”.

          7. Part of this is Russian disinformation campaign combined with far right supporters. Putin desperately wants trump to stay in power. Anything/person who threatens that will be attacked. It’s become an all too familiar tactic I hope most will see right through.

  8. It’s really a portrait of the abject ignorance Trump has of government, and government’s purpose.

    The current pandemic cannot be addressed on a state-by-state basis. This is exactly the kind of crisis for which the federal government is necessary, and he has no idea what to do. None. Smart presidents either learn what’s needed, or delegate to experts and back them 100%.

    People are tuning into his briefings to learn the latest on what is a drastic, nationwide situation, one which threatens their very lives. They don’t tune in to see him, they want to hear from Fauci and the experts. But for Trump, it’s all about the greater glory of himself.

    And what do we see now? Demands that state officials kowtow to him on pain of having aid withheld. Life-threatening pronouncements about chloroquine, possibly leading to a man’s death in Arizona. And concern only for the markets and investors, with no empathy for those suffering. A man who refuses to take any responsibility. A man who blithely endangers American citizens on a cruise ship by forbidding them from disembarking, all so he can keep the number of the infected artificially low and make him look better.

    He’s a cross between Mussolini and Cliff Clavin, and he’s killing us.

      1. I was thinking more like Spain’s Franco, because of the support he gets from conservative evangelical leaders.

      1. Before I scrolled down to see the whole pic, I thought it was going to say “Feckless Endangerment.”

    1. …officials kowtow to him on pain of having aid withheld. Shades of what possibly occurred with Ukraine’s president.

      Also, I don’t know why it took me this long to realize that he seems to come down on every side of an issue in a single sentence, so you can’t possibly pin him down on anything binary. That way, he can use (abuse?) his dishonesty to get away with saying: “I didn’t say that.”

      1. That’s why they call him “transactional”. Everything’s a transaction, everything must end with him getting paid.

        I’d watched him for years, though without making a study of him. There’s a reason New York hates him, and has for decades. He’s a greedy, lying crook, always on the make. He doesn’t care about anyone, least of all his voters.

    2. >>>The current pandemic cannot be addressed on a state-by-state basis. This is exactly the kind of crisis for which the federal government is necessary, and he has no idea what to do.<<< Constitutionally incorrect, but when he threatened to take federal action to quarantine the worst state that completely mismanaged by its governor, said governor complained loudly about it. You can't have it both ways, unless of course you are a liberal. Each state is to address its needs and its concerns. Trump's now six week long shutdown shows the claim that he cares only for markets and investors to be a lie. This act of shutting down the country is devastating to people. And $1200 a person to be tacked on to our taxes and paid by our children will not help that. If Trump cared only about investors and markets, he would have never shut it down.

        1. The Constitution gives no authority for a federal mandate to address this. Those rights are reserved to the states.

          1. Of course it does. Read the Commerce Clause. And don’t even try arguing that a national pandemic doesn’t impact interstate commerce.

          2. The commerce clause is renowned as being of the most abused clauses in the constitution. You should read a bit of the history of it. It’s a piece of work, for sure.

            But no, this is not a matter of interstate commerce.

          3. Yeah, I guess three years of law school and 30 years as a practicing attorney and judge are no match for your peerless analysis.

            Nice try. /s

          4. No, three years of law school and thirty years of practicing law would know that the commerce clause has been greatly expanded beyond constitutional intent.

            Here are a couple of articles for those interested:
            https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/commerce-commerce-everywhere-the-uses-and-abuses-the-commerce-clause
            https://www.freedomworks.org/content/commerce-clause-not-grant-unlimited-congressional-power

            There is nothing about a national lock down or “stay home” order that legitimately flows from regulating commerce among the states. It is generally agreed that the federal government could restrict interstate travel because that is, well, interstate. But it is unlikely that a “stay home” order would be constitutional because it isn’t interstate.

            My analysis isn’t peerless. In fact, it isn’t even mine. It comes from people much smarter and more legally informed than you or I, or you and I put together.

          5. You presume to know what my level of expertise is. You shouldn’t do that. You don’t know what my level of expertise is. And your statements mark you as a dilettante. No serious lawyer would resort to the sources you cite. They’d be laughed out of the courtroom.

            I wouldn’t have responded had you not made such a silly assertion regarding the constitutionality of federal action.

          6. Thanks. I didn’t presume anything about your level of expertise. My point was entirely in response to the point you made, not any expertise you may have. (Though I suspect were you a expert in the commerce clause with history of litigation and argument in federal court, you would have already said that and linked to some scholarly articles that you have written on it and cases you have argued that were decided in your favor.)

            The articles I linked to aren’t legal articles for use in a courtroom. They are popular articles written to explain the issue. And I could multiply them many times over from legal decision to federal government declarations such as the CDC to left-leaning sites and right-leaning sites. What they all seem to agree on is that the commerce clause can, as I said, regulate travel between states. It probably has no authority to mandate a response within a state over an entire population (as opposed to individuals known to be a danger). I don’t know for sure, but that seems to be the common thread in articles from all sides.

            If you are so confident that you are correct, why do so many people with judicial experience disagree with you? Why do magazines who lean left disagree with you? Why do governors disagree with you?

            What is your level of expertise that gives us reason to trust your analysis of this?

          7. Your point is one apparently made based on your perusal of popular (among right wing types) web sites that generally teach you their philosophy and nothing about how law actually works. Or more appropriately, affirm your opinions, irrespective of whether they are actually followed in, you know, the real world.

            Hijacking a comment thread to this extent is common among dillettantes who must make their point. Uh-uh, not playing.

            Maybe you would prefer hanging out at The Federalist. But whatever, life is too short for me to indulge your armchair analysis.

            Blocked.

          8. As I pointed out, this is coming from left-leaning sites like the Atlantic and from places like NBC News which has never been confused with a right wing website popular among right wing types. This not a “right wing” opinion. The CDC says the same thing. Andrew Cuomo, who has never been confused with a right wing viewpoint, agrees with me that the President cannot do this.

            Here you go:
            Left-leaning Vox. com: https://www.vox.com/2020/3/11/21166621/coronavirus-quarantines-legal-constitution-new-rochelle
            Left-leaning Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/why-theres-no-national-lockdown/609127/
            Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/10/if-you-get-sick-with-coronavirus-can-donald-trump-make-you-stay-home/
            NBC News: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/can-federal-government-order-national-quarantine-n1162036
            Liberal NY Governor Andrew Cuomo: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/28/ny-gov-cuomo-says-trump-has-no-authority-to-impose-quarantine.html

            Those are examples from non right wing sites including left-leaning (at least leaning) sites. So the idea that I am spouting right wing propoganda is false.

            These don’t affirm my opinion. I had no opinion until I started doing a little reading because I was curious. I had never even thought o the question. And you have given no basis for any other opinion. I asked you for your reasoning. You didn’t give it. Why not?

            Again, I ask simple questions: Why do so many people with judicial experience disagree with you? Why do magazines who lean left disagree with you? Why do governors disagree with you? What is your level of expertise that gives us reason to trust your analysis of this?

            As for hijacking, I did no such thing. I responded to what you said and you took off with it. I am responding to you.

            Of course you probably won’t see that because you have blocked me. Like so many, you are unwilling to engage with people who differ with you. You are unwilling to explain your point of view and convince others why they should believe it. Typical of the liberal/progressive side, and typical of the conservative/liberal divide in our country. Conservatives are much more likely to engage in conversation than liberals are. Why? Because they are more tolerant.

            Anyway, if someone sees Jeff Ryan, tell him I would like to know more about his reasoning.

          9. A wise move. Attempting to have a discussion with LT is a waste of time. He has a well-known (to those who have been around long enough) pattern of disrupting a discussion.

          10. As Ken well knows, my posts are consistently respectful and filled with content. You can see even in this discussion that I offered links to various articles supporting the point I was making. Jeff offered nothing except some vague and unsupported claim of expertise all the while differing with a host of legal minds from all sides of the politcal spectrum.

            I continue to be interested in Jeff’s response to the articles and arguments I have posted. Somehow I doubt we will hear from Jeff again.

          11. As Ken well knows, my posts are consistently respectful and filled with content. You can see even in this discussion that I offered links to various articles supporting the point I was making. Jeff offered nothing except some vague and unsupported claim of expertise all the while differing with a host of legal minds from all sides of the politcal spectrum.

            I continue to be interested in Jeff’s response to the articles and arguments I have posted. Somehow I doubt we will hear from Jeff again.

      1. Trump’s now six week long shutdown shows the claim that he cares only for markets and investors to be a lie.

        No, it could easily be just as self-serving, and given his track record, there is little reason to doubt it is. More than anything, Trump wants to be re-elected in November, and his advisers, such as they are, will have been banging on about the necessity of being seen to be helping the people, not just boasting about helping people.

        Every half-decent decision he’s made, except perhaps for the banning travel from China (which was an easy ask anyway since it fits with the administration narrative of the “Chinese virus”) has had to be dragged out of him after days even weeks of denial and prevarication.

        The main problem is that he’s clearly in over his head. He hasn’t a clue what he’s doing, and there’s ample evidence that he’s often just repeating things that he’s just heard one of his sycophants suggest to him. It’s scary. Any other Republican president in living memory would have been preferable to this clod.

        1. It could also be self-serving, but that doesn’t mean that he cares only for markets and investors and not for those hurting. The truth remains that if he cared only for markets he would have done this differently. We as a people are going to hurt for a long time. The irresponsible decisions made at many levels–both federal and state–will leave people in dire straits. Many will probably never recover. And now, $2,000,000,000,000 has been added onto our tax bills for our children, and it all could have been avoided with responsible leadership that refused to give into the hype and panic. Unfortunately, our leadership refused.

          Trump, like all presidents, is not a medical expert. Of course he is repeating things that he’s heard. That wasn’t scary when it was previous presidents was it? I agree that any Republican president would have been preferable. Most Democratic presidents would have been preferable. Trump is a clown. He’s is a strong personality who lacks a moral compass.

          But for now, it’s time to quit playing politics and “gotcha.”

          1. “Of course he is repeating things that he’s heard. That wasn’t scary when it was previous presidents was it?”

            Previous presidents listened to experts. He only listens to sycophants.

          2. Dr. Fauci is a syncophant? Dr. Birx is a sycophant?

            And BTW, Obama’s record of who he listened too was pretty spotty at best. That’s what got us into a lot of the mess with the ACA and other issues. People said from the beginning it was a bad idea that would not work but he refused to listen.

          3. That’s not what Dr. Fauci says. But he was only the room with him so it makes sense we should listen to you rather than him.

          4. He’s too much of a gentleman to criticize his boss. We’re under no such constraints.

          5. Perhaps. He also has a desire to be honest. Not everyone is under such constraints.

            But thanks for responding.

          6. Fauci is being nice to this moron because there is more at stake than his ego. Something trump supporters intentionally ignore.

          7. Except for the millions of people who were able to get insurance. But they don’t count do they?

          8. Based on several investigative reports, he had information about how serious this was back in Feb and chose to listen to those pressuring him to not do anything that would affect markets instead of medical experts. Then he puts his incompetent son-in-law in charge, Then he fires the person in charge of over site in distributing the funds. No, he does not care about anyone who is not kissing up to him.

      2. Once again,someone thinks all they have to do is throw in the word “liberal” and that makes their point. Lame nonsense. Yet another way to avoid dealing with facts.

  9. At this point it isn’t just narcissistic, his lack of empathy for others seems to be sociopathic as well.

      1. Not necessarily. A narcissist can feel empathy for others, and may wish to help others because of that empathy. However, due to their narcissism they will want/expect to be praised for that help. A sociopath wouldn’t be interested in helping someone else, unless there was something in it for them.

        For a narcissistic, sociopath, praise could be the sufficient “something in it” to motivate them to help. Likewise, for a narcissist, vilification is something to avoid. Initially, Trump didn’t seem to care about the threat of a pandemic (a sociopathic symptom) until people started saying how bad he was for doing nothing/downplaying the problem (fear of vilification, a narcissistic symptom).

        Now to be clear, you can’t make a diagnosis of sociopathy (or psychopathy) based just on this event, however it is why I think it is more than just narcissism with Trump.

        1. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I wonder how much of this is nature vs nurture.

  10. No question he is both self absorbed and thin skinned. Also no question that the MSM would not only wish harm on the American people, but even bring it to them, if it furthered their liberal loony ideals..His point, poorly made, is that the MSM can’t be trusted, which has been proven repeatedly during the last three years..

    1. Without journalists doing their jobs, we wouldn’t know what we know about this corrupt administration. They are asking questions which I want asked everyday and which upset him because they expose his incompetence. That doesn’t harm me, it keeps him on the defensive and may prevent a worse catastrophe.

          1. One of the voices in Trump’s head, no doubt. They’re the source of most of those vague quotes he spouts.

      1. “First, they came for the journalists. We don’t know what happened after that. . .”

        –protest sign, reported by Danielle Muscato, on Twitter.

    2. Ah, there it is. The only thing left for Trump die hards to cling to — false equivalence.

    3. Ah, there it is. The only thing left for Trump die hards to cling to — false equivalence.

    4. Delusional….
      Turn off the lies and half-truths of Faux “News.” Click away from Breitbart and the other cesspools of right-wing propaganda.
      And most obviously, STOP BELIEVING TRUMP! The Truth is usually the opposite of what he says.

    5. I’d say the “MSM”‘s failure to validate your ideas is a sign that it IS trustworthy.

    6. Think about this. Why would the MSM want to harm the country? The country they live in. But beyond that, the MSM is not *one* thing. They are many separate companies, not to mention the hundreds of smaller online news sources. It simply makes no sense on any level that they would all work together to hurt the country and then that the people who want to be informed would watch it. Again, if this were really true and there were some evidence for this, one of them would simply report it and it would become a huge story. Not to mention, all the praise, I’m sure, from Trump himself.

      As to your second point about Trump’s “true” meaning, that we can’t trust the MSM. Who said it was all under control? Who said we have 15 cases which will soon be 0? Who said everyone who wants a test can get a test and that the tests are perfect? There are dozens and dozens of incorrect statements like this on this crisis alone. Don’t you think it’s ironic that very little of what Trump says is true? And who do you think is calling him on it and fact checking him? Listen, just because (probably) most journalists hate Trump doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

      1. CBS news , today, uses video of overcrowded ITALIAN hospital, to portray NYC hospital.. Fake news.
        ” If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor..” “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan…” ” This plan will lower EVERYONE’S premiums by 2500/year…”
        Progressives and nevertrumpers are so filled with hate for Trump, that they are willing to wish doom on Americans in an attempt to damage Trump.
        I didn’t vote the guy, and won’t the next time, but I didn’t vote for Clinton, or Obama, and they were still our presidents.. And yes, the MSM is monolithic in its hatred of Trump, and it’s desire to find anything to damage him.

        1. CBS news , today, uses video of overcrowded ITALIAN hospital, to portray NYC hospital.. Fake news.

          Cite? When I look that up on google, I see an article titled “Inside an Italy hospital overwhelmed by coronavirus – CBS News”

          “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan…” ” This plan will lower EVERYONE’S premiums by 2500/year…”

          Those were quotes by OBAMA, not the MSM. And Poltifact called the “you can keep your dr…” claim its lie of the year. You’re not doing so hot coming up with examples of the MSM lying to people. In fact, they fact checked the liberal president too. Gosh, see how that works.

          I don’t mean to play “tu quoque” here, but you seem keen on attempts to point out the MSM’s inaccuracy. But, wouldn’t you agree Trump’s false claims should be called out too?

          Progressives and nevertrumpers are so filled with hate for Trump, that they are willing to wish doom on Americans in an attempt to damage Trump.

          Again, cite? But look at yourself. Is there any better example of hate than ascribing to your political enemies the motivation to harm a huge number of people out of pure evilness? As a “liberal”, I can tell you. I don’t wish the country or Trump supporters harmed. The blogs and news I read and the people I talk to don’t wish that either.

          And yes, the MSM is monolithic in its hatred of Trump, and it’s desire to find anything to damage him.

          Again, the MSM is not a monolith. The vast majority of journalist make very little money. They don’t do it for power or wealth. Also, you forgot, even if they hate him, it doesn’t mean they are wrong.

          1. If you read the article, it just goes back to The Gateway Pundit. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but they are well known for publishing conspiracy theories and other inaccuracies. I will wait for a reputable source before jumping to conclusions.

            So, I did some more digging this morning. There is a Fox News article about it now too where they actually did the journalistic thing and contacted CBS for comment. “It was an editing mistake. We took immediate steps to remove it from all platforms and shows,” a CBS News spokesperson told Fox News.

            So, apparently, it was correct. Now, you can argue about whether it was done intentionally and/or maliciously. But, it sounds like admitted it and then corrected it right away. Again, that doesn’t sound like an organization that is committed to spreading disinformation. Assuming it was a mistake, as they claim, what would you like them to do?

            And you never answered my question. When Trump makes a misstatement, should he be fact checked and called out on it? Is that important to you at all?

          2. If you read the article, it just goes back to The Gateway Pundit. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but they are well known for publishing conspiracy theories and other inaccuracies. I will wait for a reputable source before jumping to conclusions.

            So, I did some more digging this morning. There is a Fox News article about it now too where they actually did the journalistic thing and contacted CBS for comment. “It was an editing mistake. We took immediate steps to remove it from all platforms and shows,” a CBS News spokesperson told Fox News.

            So, apparently, it was correct. Now, you can argue about whether it was done intentionally and/or maliciously. But, it sounds like admitted it and then corrected it right away. Again, that doesn’t sound like an organization that is committed to spreading disinformation. Assuming it was a mistake, as they claim, what would you like them to do?

            And you never answered my question. When Trump makes a misstatement, should he be fact checked and called out on it? Is that important to you at all?

          3. You’re trying to reason with a troll, not going to work. But at least you’re making sense. He will not be able to grasp facts. Beyond his ability.

        2. You are lying. Are you a russian troll or home grown. Really need to come up with new pack of lies, everyone sees through these.

    7. Lame falsehoods once again. Anything to keep you from confronting how bad trump is.

    1. Well, that administration DID have it’s moments… Remember “everyone get back out there and shop again”?

Comments are closed.