Breakpoint: David Barton Gave Us What We Wanted

The first article on the front page of the Breakpoint website is an article by Tom Gilson, titled, “He Gave Us What We Wanted.” In this article, Gilson lays responsibility at the feet of the evangelical community for failure to examine the claims of David Barton because “he gave us what we wanted.” Gilson writes:

I am no historian, so I am in no position to form an independent judgment of his [Barton’s] veracity. Few of us are. But that doesn’t excuse our eager acceptance of his inaccuracies. With a bit of care, any of us could have known of the serious questions that have surrounded Barton’s work for a long time. These recent revelations are nothing new, except in the degree to which conservative Christian scholars are involved in calling him to account.

Nevertheless we became for him a devoted cadre of disciples. We knew our country’s founding principles were vitally important. However, so is historical accuracy. It looks as if Barton compromised one to make a case for the other.

If the signs have been there for some time, why then did we love Barton so? And is it possible that we share the blame?

Gilson concludes:

To accept any human teacher without checking on his message with due diligence is to abandon our responsibility to the truth. David Barton’s errors are not only his. They also belong to those of us who bought his message carelessly, unquestioningly, too eagerly, and too comfortably.

These are stunning and important admissions from one of the evangelical world’s flagship ministries. While I expect that Barton will continue with ad hominem attacks, there is now no doubt that his accusations are false.

48 thoughts on “Breakpoint: David Barton Gave Us What We Wanted”

  1. By ‘engaging in sincere introspection and honest analysis’, Breakpoint is IMHO being … well, Christian. No serious Christian can afford not to engage in regular and rigorous examination of conscience; the same might be said for anyone who strives to take their seriously own humanity.

    Of course, we all can use facts in a way that ‘affirms our world view’, and often do (and, as Zoe suggests, must constantly evaluate our behaviour in this regard and modify it as required). The issue with Barton & Co. is perhaps that they are not actually using facts at all, but rather departing from them.

  2. Sure, Andrew. As long as you don’t take anything I said out of context. 😉

  3. Are we all susceptible to believing things which affirm our worldview

    YES. You have to question your assumptions. And then step back and question your new assumptions again. The trick is to accept nothing as simple. If you begin with a presumption of complexity you’ll be more likely to see the realities. And even then, you have to accept that you’re only seeing a part of the reality as filtered to you and as perceived by you.

    As someone who comments on and follows the culture wars closely I can tell you it happens as much on one side as on the other. People are a lot like lemmings. They run and run and run on what they think is solid ground and by the time they figure out that they’re actually falling off a cliff it’s too late to do anything about it.

  4. May I quote you guys, Tracy and Krista? You have so nailed the disease that plagues a large portion of the evangelical church…a nationalistic religion that is Christ-less… and greatly deceived. God have mercy.

  5. What Dan said.

    It also has taught me to raise my own game.

    One of the reasons I hang out here is to ensure my own comfortable beliefs are challenged. I’d rather be corrected than win an argument.

  6. Are we all susceptible to believing things which affirm our worldview, especially when it’s a matter that is beyond our area of expertise?

    Is the Pope German?

    Yes, of course we are. Atheists like myself too. It’s something every intellectually honest person must guard against, and something that I think everyone fails at sometimes too. You just have to re-check, and if need be, correct and apologise.

    For matters within our expertise, we’re generally on safer ground. We have the habit ingrained of doubting the most convenient story, of testing it and assuming it’s guilty until proven innocent. Otherwise we wouldn’t have expertise in it, would we? Even then, “safer” doesn’t mean “safe”.

  7. There is no greater strength in this world or in Heaven, as the truth. It appears as if the wall that Barton has built, is being slowly taken down.

  8. I know you’re not looking for this, but I just want to say Congratulations Dr. Throckmorton! Your hard work has paid off in getting to the truth of the matter regarding David Barton’s claims, and getting that information out to the public. We’re thankful for folks willing to challenge what is presented/published when it is inconsistant with the facts. We are sometimes so much like sheep following what we hear, believing w/o questioning, especially when it suits us. Thanks for challenging us to think, research, question what we hear.

  9. The ‘culture wars’, coupled with the ‘soundbite’ syndrome, are producing a dangerous ‘bipolarity’ in society.

    The dangers of ‘relativism’ (by which I mean taking something relative and proximate and proclaiming it to be an ‘absolute’) are very real and very present.

  10. May I quote you guys, Tracy and Krista? You have so nailed the disease that plagues a large portion of the evangelical church…a nationalistic religion that is Christ-less… and greatly deceived. God have mercy.

  11. Spot on, Tracy. I was home schooled with the A Beka “Christian” curriculum. This curriculum taught an obviously biased version of the Civil War, focusing on all the negative aspects of the Northern officers, while portraying the Southern officers as all “God-fearing, benevolent slave owners.” My father explained it to me when he said: “You’re getting a great education into brainwashing. There are kids right now who are being taught this, and you will need to deal with them someday.” Boy was he right…

    I also witnessed the “Christian homeschool movement” when my mom tried to get us into a local Christian home school group. The leader family of this group was literally “Christian militia.” They had a shed in their backwoods loaded with firearms (that there sons used like toys, by the way), and they taught “survival tactics” in case we ever needed to “defend America.” Needless to say, we never went back to their “encampment.” But yes, this is really happening.

    All this propaganda has kept people blind to the truth, and the division in this country politically and socially is exactly the result they want to see. “Divide and conquer.” Sadly, my parents have finally taken the bait. They’ve shunned their “liberal” or “democrat” family members because they believe “there’s no talking to a liberal.” And that’s exactly the kind of extremism Barton and others want to see. Both sides are equally at fault, but the “Christian” community has the greater responsibility not to fall prey to this kind of thing.

    John 9:41 “Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains.”

    It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to know the Bible seem to either forget or just completely ignore the words of Jesus.

    Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”

    You’re absolutely right; He explicitly warned us about “false prophets” and those who would “come in My name.” Because we were warned, we are without excuse.

  12. Zoe said:

    It also has taught me to raise my own game.

    One of the reasons I hang out here is to ensure my own comfortable beliefs are challenged. I’d rather be corrected than win an argument.

    Yes, yes and yes, Zoe. Some of us here, though, have taken awhile to come to the humility that’s buried deep in the bolded sentence above. However, there’s a joyous freedom in holding our precious little views ‘lightly’, and following where the truth leads us.

  13. I know you’re not looking for this, but I just want to say Congratulations Dr. Throckmorton! Your hard work has paid off in getting to the truth of the matter regarding David Barton’s claims, and getting that information out to the public. We’re thankful for folks willing to challenge what is presented/published when it is inconsistant with the facts. We are sometimes so much like sheep following what we hear, believing w/o questioning, especially when it suits us. Thanks for challenging us to think, research, question what we hear.

  14. Spot on, Tracy. I was home schooled with the A Beka “Christian” curriculum. This curriculum taught an obviously biased version of the Civil War, focusing on all the negative aspects of the Northern officers, while portraying the Southern officers as all “God-fearing, benevolent slave owners.” My father explained it to me when he said: “You’re getting a great education into brainwashing. There are kids right now who are being taught this, and you will need to deal with them someday.” Boy was he right…

    I also witnessed the “Christian homeschool movement” when my mom tried to get us into a local Christian home school group. The leader family of this group was literally “Christian militia.” They had a shed in their backwoods loaded with firearms (that there sons used like toys, by the way), and they taught “survival tactics” in case we ever needed to “defend America.” Needless to say, we never went back to their “encampment.” But yes, this is really happening.

    All this propaganda has kept people blind to the truth, and the division in this country politically and socially is exactly the result they want to see. “Divide and conquer.” Sadly, my parents have finally taken the bait. They’ve shunned their “liberal” or “democrat” family members because they believe “there’s no talking to a liberal.” And that’s exactly the kind of extremism Barton and others want to see. Both sides are equally at fault, but the “Christian” community has the greater responsibility not to fall prey to this kind of thing.

    John 9:41 “Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains.”

    It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to know the Bible seem to either forget or just completely ignore the words of Jesus.

    Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”

    You’re absolutely right; He explicitly warned us about “false prophets” and those who would “come in My name.” Because we were warned, we are without excuse.

  15. Spot on, Tracy. I was home schooled with the A Beka “Christian” curriculum. This curriculum taught an obviously biased version of the Civil War, focusing on all the negative aspects of the Northern officers, while portraying the Southern officers as all “God-fearing, benevolent slave owners.” My father explained it to me when he said: “You’re getting a great education into brainwashing. There are kids right now who are being taught this, and you will need to deal with them someday.” Boy was he right…

    I also witnessed the “Christian homeschool movement” when my mom tried to get us into a local Christian home school group. The leader family of this group was literally “Christian militia.” They had a shed in their backwoods loaded with firearms (that there sons used like toys, by the way), and they taught “survival tactics” in case we ever needed to “defend America.” Needless to say, we never went back to their “encampment.” But yes, this is really happening.

    All this propaganda has kept people blind to the truth, and the division in this country politically and socially is exactly the result they want to see. “Divide and conquer.” Sadly, my parents have finally taken the bait. They’ve shunned their “liberal” or “democrat” family members because they believe “there’s no talking to a liberal.” And that’s exactly the kind of extremism Barton and others want to see. Both sides are equally at fault, but the “Christian” community has the greater responsibility not to fall prey to this kind of thing.

    John 9:41 “Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains.”

    It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to know the Bible seem to either forget or just completely ignore the words of Jesus.

    Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”

    You’re absolutely right; He explicitly warned us about “false prophets” and those who would “come in My name.” Because we were warned, we are without excuse.

  16. Zoe said:

    It also has taught me to raise my own game.

    One of the reasons I hang out here is to ensure my own comfortable beliefs are challenged. I’d rather be corrected than win an argument.

    Yes, yes and yes, Zoe. Some of us here, though, have taken awhile to come to the humility that’s buried deep in the bolded sentence above. However, there’s a joyous freedom in holding our precious little views ‘lightly’, and following where the truth leads us.

  17. Zoe said:

    It also has taught me to raise my own game.

    One of the reasons I hang out here is to ensure my own comfortable beliefs are challenged. I’d rather be corrected than win an argument.

    Yes, yes and yes, Zoe. Some of us here, though, have taken awhile to come to the humility that’s buried deep in the bolded sentence above. However, there’s a joyous freedom in holding our precious little views ‘lightly’, and following where the truth leads us.

  18. The quote: “I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history.”

    Hi folks. I work with American archaeology and history, and I am about 60 years old. I am also a Christian. I attended secular universities, had mostly secular professors, and worked with secular folks in research. The quote above is a fantasy. In all of my nearly 60 years, I do not recall a single secular American historian, archaeologist, or anthropologist with whom I have studied or worked that has sought to discredit Christianity, preached against Christianity in college classes, or sought to remove Christianity from American history.

    I really am at a total loss to understand why so many of my fellow Christians have bought into all of this religious baloney over the past 30 years. My secular associates have always been honest and diligent truth seekers, even when the truth they were seeking turned out to be inconvenient in some way.

    I have studied and researched the phenomenon called the Religious Right and conservative Christianity for the past 20 years simply because I have been so interested in the subject. I have not done it for publication purposes, but rather to just examine, sort out, and learn what the truth really is on my own—for myself. I have concluded, and I say this as a fellow Christian who really does love Jesus, that the Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical community in the United States (meaning ordinary people in the pews on Sunday morning) have been heavily propagandized by droves of people with deceitful personal agendas that would amaze many of you. In many cases, the people doing the deceiving are the pastors in the churches. Some are doing it on purpose, knowing that what they are doing is wrong (at least subconsciously) and others are simply pastors that have been deceived by fellow pastors that they have trusted or people in their own church hierarchies. So-called parachurch and nonchurch Christian organizations are a very special worry in this regard.

    I guess my point is this in terms of the things I have learned. The revelations about David Barton are just the surface-exposed tip of a monstrously large iceberg that goes way beyond the limits of just David Barton. The Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical communities are being eaten alive from the inside out by nonChristian ideas and philosophies that have been peddled subtly as Christianity. However, none of us should really be surprised by this. Jesus warned us that Satan is a liar. But more importantly, he is a clever deceiver—one who can easily fool people by twisting the truth just right, mixing what sounds good with just the right amount of misinformation, and so forth.

    I think the David Barton outing was a warning from Jesus. For many years, conservative Christians have either been taught to believe or have just decided on their own to believe that Proverbs 3:5 (or maybe it is 5:3) means to switch off your brain at the church door. Switch off your brain at the weekend retreat. Switch off your brain at the conference. The message is switch off your brain and believe that everything you are about to hear (every last word) is total truth that you must believe and believe without questioning. Do not research it. Never test it to find out if it is really true. Just absorb it. Make it a part of your life. Live it out in all that you do. And why must you do that? You must do it because the deliverer of the message has just dropped the name “Jesus” into the mix and sprinkled it around some. They want you to think that the things they say are coming straight from the mouth of Jesus when it is really coming from their own errors, schemes, prejudices, pride, etc.

    Jesus said to do just the opposite in the bible He said to TEST THE SPIRITS to see if they be of God. No one in the Christian community ever bothered to test David Barton until now. We need to switch on our Christian brains that Jesus gave us (for a reason) and start questioing the things that supposedly Christian people tell us. Question Charles Stanley!!! Question the writings of Francis Shaeffer!!! Question Al Mohler!!! Question Hal Lindsey!!! Question the Family Research Council!!! Question Charles Colson!!! Question Joyce Meyer. Question the heretical teachings behind the Christian homeschool movement (bet you wonder what I am talking about there). I hope you will wonder no more after David Barton. Like I said. He is just the tip of the iceberg. I know all about it from my own researching and questioning over the past 20 years, and I still have a lot to learn

    Thank you Dr. Throckmorton

  19. Zoe:

    I wanted to acknowledge your comment and commend you for taking that approach. I try to question my own biases and assumptions. It is hard to remember to do that, especially in the heat of argument and especially on some issue about which I care. But it is important to do it and to do it for real, not as a rote exercise that only confirms the preexisting belief. Anyway, good on ya!

  20. The quote: “I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history.”

    Hi folks. I work with American archaeology and history, and I am about 60 years old. I am also a Christian. I attended secular universities, had mostly secular professors, and worked with secular folks in research. The quote above is a fantasy. In all of my nearly 60 years, I do not recall a single secular American historian, archaeologist, or anthropologist with whom I have studied or worked that has sought to discredit Christianity, preached against Christianity in college classes, or sought to remove Christianity from American history.

    I really am at a total loss to understand why so many of my fellow Christians have bought into all of this religious baloney over the past 30 years. My secular associates have always been honest and diligent truth seekers, even when the truth they were seeking turned out to be inconvenient in some way.

    I have studied and researched the phenomenon called the Religious Right and conservative Christianity for the past 20 years simply because I have been so interested in the subject. I have not done it for publication purposes, but rather to just examine, sort out, and learn what the truth really is on my own—for myself. I have concluded, and I say this as a fellow Christian who really does love Jesus, that the Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical community in the United States (meaning ordinary people in the pews on Sunday morning) have been heavily propagandized by droves of people with deceitful personal agendas that would amaze many of you. In many cases, the people doing the deceiving are the pastors in the churches. Some are doing it on purpose, knowing that what they are doing is wrong (at least subconsciously) and others are simply pastors that have been deceived by fellow pastors that they have trusted or people in their own church hierarchies. So-called parachurch and nonchurch Christian organizations are a very special worry in this regard.

    I guess my point is this in terms of the things I have learned. The revelations about David Barton are just the surface-exposed tip of a monstrously large iceberg that goes way beyond the limits of just David Barton. The Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical communities are being eaten alive from the inside out by nonChristian ideas and philosophies that have been peddled subtly as Christianity. However, none of us should really be surprised by this. Jesus warned us that Satan is a liar. But more importantly, he is a clever deceiver—one who can easily fool people by twisting the truth just right, mixing what sounds good with just the right amount of misinformation, and so forth.

    I think the David Barton outing was a warning from Jesus. For many years, conservative Christians have either been taught to believe or have just decided on their own to believe that Proverbs 3:5 (or maybe it is 5:3) means to switch off your brain at the church door. Switch off your brain at the weekend retreat. Switch off your brain at the conference. The message is switch off your brain and believe that everything you are about to hear (every last word) is total truth that you must believe and believe without questioning. Do not research it. Never test it to find out if it is really true. Just absorb it. Make it a part of your life. Live it out in all that you do. And why must you do that? You must do it because the deliverer of the message has just dropped the name “Jesus” into the mix and sprinkled it around some. They want you to think that the things they say are coming straight from the mouth of Jesus when it is really coming from their own errors, schemes, prejudices, pride, etc.

    Jesus said to do just the opposite in the bible He said to TEST THE SPIRITS to see if they be of God. No one in the Christian community ever bothered to test David Barton until now. We need to switch on our Christian brains that Jesus gave us (for a reason) and start questioing the things that supposedly Christian people tell us. Question Charles Stanley!!! Question the writings of Francis Shaeffer!!! Question Al Mohler!!! Question Hal Lindsey!!! Question the Family Research Council!!! Question Charles Colson!!! Question Joyce Meyer. Question the heretical teachings behind the Christian homeschool movement (bet you wonder what I am talking about there). I hope you will wonder no more after David Barton. Like I said. He is just the tip of the iceberg. I know all about it from my own researching and questioning over the past 20 years, and I still have a lot to learn

    Thank you Dr. Throckmorton

  21. The quote: “I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history.”

    Hi folks. I work with American archaeology and history, and I am about 60 years old. I am also a Christian. I attended secular universities, had mostly secular professors, and worked with secular folks in research. The quote above is a fantasy. In all of my nearly 60 years, I do not recall a single secular American historian, archaeologist, or anthropologist with whom I have studied or worked that has sought to discredit Christianity, preached against Christianity in college classes, or sought to remove Christianity from American history.

    I really am at a total loss to understand why so many of my fellow Christians have bought into all of this religious baloney over the past 30 years. My secular associates have always been honest and diligent truth seekers, even when the truth they were seeking turned out to be inconvenient in some way.

    I have studied and researched the phenomenon called the Religious Right and conservative Christianity for the past 20 years simply because I have been so interested in the subject. I have not done it for publication purposes, but rather to just examine, sort out, and learn what the truth really is on my own—for myself. I have concluded, and I say this as a fellow Christian who really does love Jesus, that the Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical community in the United States (meaning ordinary people in the pews on Sunday morning) have been heavily propagandized by droves of people with deceitful personal agendas that would amaze many of you. In many cases, the people doing the deceiving are the pastors in the churches. Some are doing it on purpose, knowing that what they are doing is wrong (at least subconsciously) and others are simply pastors that have been deceived by fellow pastors that they have trusted or people in their own church hierarchies. So-called parachurch and nonchurch Christian organizations are a very special worry in this regard.

    I guess my point is this in terms of the things I have learned. The revelations about David Barton are just the surface-exposed tip of a monstrously large iceberg that goes way beyond the limits of just David Barton. The Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical communities are being eaten alive from the inside out by nonChristian ideas and philosophies that have been peddled subtly as Christianity. However, none of us should really be surprised by this. Jesus warned us that Satan is a liar. But more importantly, he is a clever deceiver—one who can easily fool people by twisting the truth just right, mixing what sounds good with just the right amount of misinformation, and so forth.

    I think the David Barton outing was a warning from Jesus. For many years, conservative Christians have either been taught to believe or have just decided on their own to believe that Proverbs 3:5 (or maybe it is 5:3) means to switch off your brain at the church door. Switch off your brain at the weekend retreat. Switch off your brain at the conference. The message is switch off your brain and believe that everything you are about to hear (every last word) is total truth that you must believe and believe without questioning. Do not research it. Never test it to find out if it is really true. Just absorb it. Make it a part of your life. Live it out in all that you do. And why must you do that? You must do it because the deliverer of the message has just dropped the name “Jesus” into the mix and sprinkled it around some. They want you to think that the things they say are coming straight from the mouth of Jesus when it is really coming from their own errors, schemes, prejudices, pride, etc.

    Jesus said to do just the opposite in the bible He said to TEST THE SPIRITS to see if they be of God. No one in the Christian community ever bothered to test David Barton until now. We need to switch on our Christian brains that Jesus gave us (for a reason) and start questioing the things that supposedly Christian people tell us. Question Charles Stanley!!! Question the writings of Francis Shaeffer!!! Question Al Mohler!!! Question Hal Lindsey!!! Question the Family Research Council!!! Question Charles Colson!!! Question Joyce Meyer. Question the heretical teachings behind the Christian homeschool movement (bet you wonder what I am talking about there). I hope you will wonder no more after David Barton. Like I said. He is just the tip of the iceberg. I know all about it from my own researching and questioning over the past 20 years, and I still have a lot to learn

    Thank you Dr. Throckmorton

  22. Well, yes. In a ‘substantive’ sense, it doesn’t matter who criticizes Barton’s work as long as their criticisms are, as far as is possible, truthful.

    I suspect (though I might be wrong about this) that, in this case, Gilson’s mention of ‘liberal academics’ was really a rhetorical device to place emphasis on the fact that ‘conservative Christians’ are criticizing Barton’s behaviour.

    Is Barton really a historian at all? My view, based on the etymology of the word ‘history’, is that he is not. As long as a so-called ‘liberal academic’ in the filed of ‘history’ is truly engaged in genuine ‘enquiry’, then she/he IS a historian. The same would apply to a ‘conservative (Christian) academic’, of course!

  23. Gilson show that he still does not get it when he writes:

    “I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history.”

    Academics may be liberal, but they have researched and written hundreds of books on our rich religious history. They may not write them like God allegedly did the Bible ( a complaint of Barton) with divine conversation, miracles, and interference with human cognitive faculties in the superintending of his eternal plan. But write them they did. Owing to his presuppositions repeated by Gilson above, Barton apparently has read none of them. And he is the poorer historian for it.

  24. Zoe:

    I wanted to acknowledge your comment and commend you for taking that approach. I try to question my own biases and assumptions. It is hard to remember to do that, especially in the heat of argument and especially on some issue about which I care. But it is important to do it and to do it for real, not as a rote exercise that only confirms the preexisting belief. Anyway, good on ya!

  25. Zoe:

    I wanted to acknowledge your comment and commend you for taking that approach. I try to question my own biases and assumptions. It is hard to remember to do that, especially in the heat of argument and especially on some issue about which I care. But it is important to do it and to do it for real, not as a rote exercise that only confirms the preexisting belief. Anyway, good on ya!

  26. To take my point one stage further: I would assert that totalitarian socio-political systems, ‘religious’ or otherwise, are founded on relativism (as I have characterized it above). I am certain that it is this (entirely correct, in my view) conviction that drives Dr. Warren Throckmorton. Yes?

  27. Well, yes. In a ‘substantive’ sense, it doesn’t matter who criticizes Barton’s work as long as their criticisms are, as far as is possible, truthful.

    I suspect (though I might be wrong about this) that, in this case, Gilson’s mention of ‘liberal academics’ was really a rhetorical device to place emphasis on the fact that ‘conservative Christians’ are criticizing Barton’s behaviour.

    Is Barton really a historian at all? My view, based on the etymology of the word ‘history’, is that he is not. As long as a so-called ‘liberal academic’ in the filed of ‘history’ is truly engaged in genuine ‘enquiry’, then she/he IS a historian. The same would apply to a ‘conservative (Christian) academic’, of course!

  28. Well, yes. In a ‘substantive’ sense, it doesn’t matter who criticizes Barton’s work as long as their criticisms are, as far as is possible, truthful.

    I suspect (though I might be wrong about this) that, in this case, Gilson’s mention of ‘liberal academics’ was really a rhetorical device to place emphasis on the fact that ‘conservative Christians’ are criticizing Barton’s behaviour.

    Is Barton really a historian at all? My view, based on the etymology of the word ‘history’, is that he is not. As long as a so-called ‘liberal academic’ in the filed of ‘history’ is truly engaged in genuine ‘enquiry’, then she/he IS a historian. The same would apply to a ‘conservative (Christian) academic’, of course!

  29. The ‘culture wars’, coupled with the ‘soundbite’ syndrome, are producing a dangerous ‘bipolarity’ in society.

    The dangers of ‘relativism’ (by which I mean taking something relative and proximate and proclaiming it to be an ‘absolute’) are very real and very present.

  30. Gilson show that he still does not get it when he writes:

    “I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history.”

    Academics may be liberal, but they have researched and written hundreds of books on our rich religious history. They may not write them like God allegedly did the Bible ( a complaint of Barton) with divine conversation, miracles, and interference with human cognitive faculties in the superintending of his eternal plan. But write them they did. Owing to his presuppositions repeated by Gilson above, Barton apparently has read none of them. And he is the poorer historian for it.

  31. Gilson show that he still does not get it when he writes:

    “I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history.”

    Academics may be liberal, but they have researched and written hundreds of books on our rich religious history. They may not write them like God allegedly did the Bible ( a complaint of Barton) with divine conversation, miracles, and interference with human cognitive faculties in the superintending of his eternal plan. But write them they did. Owing to his presuppositions repeated by Gilson above, Barton apparently has read none of them. And he is the poorer historian for it.

  32. Are we all susceptible to believing things which affirm our worldview

    YES. You have to question your assumptions. And then step back and question your new assumptions again. The trick is to accept nothing as simple. If you begin with a presumption of complexity you’ll be more likely to see the realities. And even then, you have to accept that you’re only seeing a part of the reality as filtered to you and as perceived by you.

    As someone who comments on and follows the culture wars closely I can tell you it happens as much on one side as on the other. People are a lot like lemmings. They run and run and run on what they think is solid ground and by the time they figure out that they’re actually falling off a cliff it’s too late to do anything about it.

  33. To take my point one stage further: I would assert that totalitarian socio-political systems, ‘religious’ or otherwise, are founded on relativism (as I have characterized it above). I am certain that it is this (entirely correct, in my view) conviction that drives Dr. Warren Throckmorton. Yes?

  34. To take my point one stage further: I would assert that totalitarian socio-political systems, ‘religious’ or otherwise, are founded on relativism (as I have characterized it above). I am certain that it is this (entirely correct, in my view) conviction that drives Dr. Warren Throckmorton. Yes?

  35. The ‘culture wars’, coupled with the ‘soundbite’ syndrome, are producing a dangerous ‘bipolarity’ in society.

    The dangers of ‘relativism’ (by which I mean taking something relative and proximate and proclaiming it to be an ‘absolute’) are very real and very present.

  36. Richard ,

    I agree! We must as Christians, not take anything face value purely because it has “Christian” attached to it.

  37. Richard ,

    I agree! We must as Christians, not take anything face value purely because it has “Christian” attached to it.

  38. By ‘engaging in sincere introspection and honest analysis’, Breakpoint is IMHO being … well, Christian. No serious Christian can afford not to engage in regular and rigorous examination of conscience; the same might be said for anyone who strives to take their seriously own humanity.

    Of course, we all can use facts in a way that ‘affirms our world view’, and often do (and, as Zoe suggests, must constantly evaluate our behaviour in this regard and modify it as required). The issue with Barton & Co. is perhaps that they are not actually using facts at all, but rather departing from them.

  39. What Dan said.

    It also has taught me to raise my own game.

    One of the reasons I hang out here is to ensure my own comfortable beliefs are challenged. I’d rather be corrected than win an argument.

  40. Unforyunately, after reading Gilson’s whole post it appears he misses one of the key factors in determining why Barton is so prominent when his work is so easily refuted. Evangelical Christians have largely adopted a worldview that discounts all criticism that comes from outside conservative evangelical circles. If criticsm comes from anyone who is not a christian or a liberal it is deemed inherently biased against Christianity. Therefore it is a bit discouraging to read this:

    “Barton fended off criticism by blaming it on the liberal academy’s antipathy to Christianity. That had more than a little believability to it. I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history. Thus, it was easy (and it still is) to be suspicious of their criticisms in this case.

    But the ideology defense is no help when it’s conservative Christians making a case against Barton—especially when it’s a case as verifiable as this is proving to be. It’s not political opinion that’s stacking up against him now. It’s well documented facts.”

    One must ask, if these same facts were brought forth by non-christians would they be considered as “well documented” or trustworthy? I suspect the answer is no.

    Gilson’s main point seems to be that Christians should not be afraid of actual facts and should be more willing to admit when they are uncertain of a factual contention. However, if a non-christian liberal’s assertions should be deemed inherently suspicious, doesn’t that just contribute to a denial of facts and simply trusting in those things we want to believe?

  41. This is like a dream: Christian conservatives putting the facts over ideology. Christian propaganda-spewing organizations like Breakpoint engaging in sincere introspection and honest analysis.

    This outbreak of authenticity will probably be limited to the David Barton/Jefferson affair, but it is surprising and refreshing to see.

  42. Unforyunately, after reading Gilson’s whole post it appears he misses one of the key factors in determining why Barton is so prominent when his work is so easily refuted. Evangelical Christians have largely adopted a worldview that discounts all criticism that comes from outside conservative evangelical circles. If criticsm comes from anyone who is not a christian or a liberal it is deemed inherently biased against Christianity. Therefore it is a bit discouraging to read this:

    “Barton fended off criticism by blaming it on the liberal academy’s antipathy to Christianity. That had more than a little believability to it. I am quite sure that liberal academics often hold to an ideological agenda that motivates them to discredit Christianity’s part in our nation’s history. Thus, it was easy (and it still is) to be suspicious of their criticisms in this case.

    But the ideology defense is no help when it’s conservative Christians making a case against Barton—especially when it’s a case as verifiable as this is proving to be. It’s not political opinion that’s stacking up against him now. It’s well documented facts.”

    One must ask, if these same facts were brought forth by non-christians would they be considered as “well documented” or trustworthy? I suspect the answer is no.

    Gilson’s main point seems to be that Christians should not be afraid of actual facts and should be more willing to admit when they are uncertain of a factual contention. However, if a non-christian liberal’s assertions should be deemed inherently suspicious, doesn’t that just contribute to a denial of facts and simply trusting in those things we want to believe?

  43. This is like a dream: Christian conservatives putting the facts over ideology. Christian propaganda-spewing organizations like Breakpoint engaging in sincere introspection and honest analysis.

    This outbreak of authenticity will probably be limited to the David Barton/Jefferson affair, but it is surprising and refreshing to see.

  44. There is no greater strength in this world or in Heaven, as the truth. It appears as if the wall that Barton has built, is being slowly taken down.

  45. Are we all susceptible to believing things which affirm our worldview, especially when it’s a matter that is beyond our area of expertise?

    Is the Pope German?

    Yes, of course we are. Atheists like myself too. It’s something every intellectually honest person must guard against, and something that I think everyone fails at sometimes too. You just have to re-check, and if need be, correct and apologise.

    For matters within our expertise, we’re generally on safer ground. We have the habit ingrained of doubting the most convenient story, of testing it and assuming it’s guilty until proven innocent. Otherwise we wouldn’t have expertise in it, would we? Even then, “safer” doesn’t mean “safe”.

  46. I wonder if what he’s describing is necessarily confined to just the Evangelical community, though. Are we all susceptible to believing things which affirm our worldview, especially when it’s a matter that is beyond our area of expertise? Curious as to what others think.

  47. I wonder if what he’s describing is necessarily confined to just the Evangelical community, though. Are we all susceptible to believing things which affirm our worldview, especially when it’s a matter that is beyond our area of expertise? Curious as to what others think.

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