Wallbuilder's Rick Green defends comments about pediatrics associations

Early last week, I pointed out that David Barton and Rick Green identified the American College of Pediatricians as “the leading pediatric association in America.” In fact, ACP is a group of around 200 members which, in 2003, split off from the real leading group, the American Academy of Pediatrics. The AAP commented briefly later in the week.
I also mentioned that a reader, Bernie, wrote to Wallbuilders to ask why Barton and Green identified the ACP as the leading group. Rick Green responded and defended their characterization of ACP as the leading pediatric association. Reader and commenter Bernie, included this part of the conversation and asked why they described ACP in the way they did.

David: “The American College of Pediatricians is cautioning educators about what they do with same-sex attraction or symptoms of gender identity or gender confusion in schools.”
Rick: “You’re kidding, this is the Pediatric Association?”
Later, David: “Well that’s a remarkable letter coming from the leading pediatric association in America.”

Bernie pointed out that the ACP is a tiny group compared the AAP. Mr. Green replied with this explanation.

I am not aware of anything from our broadcast that was inaccurate. Nothing in the transcript you sent is wrong or false. We may disagree on what constitutes “leading,” but neither David or I said the ACP was the largest. As often happens, the larger associations become either stagnant or politically correct and lose the leadership qualities that make an organization “leading” in their profession. Meanwhile, a perhaps smaller, but more professional and cutting edge organization begins to lead by stating facts and putting forth truthful research the older organization is afraid to release due to political correctness.

Green said they may revisit the issue in a future broadcast.
None of what Green has to say about the ACP and the AAP is relevant to what it means to lead a profession. The ACP is hardly more cutting edge than the AAP but that even misses the point. A leading group in a profession speaks for the profession to the public and government. The leading group in a profession sets standards for training new members of the profession. The leading group in a profession provides continuing medical education for practicing members of the profession. The ACP does none of that.
While I have not checked this out, I would be willing to bet that no medical school uses any of the standards or materials from the ACP. I strongly suspect that no training programs seek approval or recognition from the ACP. The ACP is not a player in the profession. 
Green’s narrative makes no sense when one considers the way David Barton led into the segment. Here is the lead:

Barton: What’s interesting is, you know medical groups do not tend to be very conservative. Any professional medical group, the American Psychiatric Association, the association of psychologists, even the American Medical Association is a particularly friendly conservative group, they’re not a pro-life group and what’s really interesting is the American College of Pediatricians; now think about that, is that a conservative group?
Green: You’d think they would be, looking out for the kids, right?
Barton: But yeah, don’t spank your kid, don’t touch your kid, you know, and think of the way pediatric stuff has gone, and you don’t want to help shape these kids, let ‘em be what they want to be. And so, all that anti-parental influence, and it’s remarkable that you have the American College of Pediatricians, who has just, they sent a letter to all 14,800 school superintendents in the United States and it’s a letter warning about what’s happening in the schools and the American College of Pediatricians is cautioning educators about what they do with same-sex attraction or symptoms of gender identity confusion in schools.

Barton leads his listeners to think that he is about to tell them some news about physicians who are not conservative, not pro-life, say “don’t spank your kid,” and are “anti-parental influence.” He names the ACP as that group, asking:

…what’s really interesting is the American College of Pediatricians; now think about that, is that a conservative group?

Yes, actually, it is a very conservative group.
The ACP is pro-life, advocates spanking as an option and is pro-parents’ rights. Go check out their policy pages (parenting issues, abortion, and sexuality) and it is clear that the ACP is a conservative, but not leading, group.

30 thoughts on “Wallbuilder's Rick Green defends comments about pediatrics associations”

  1. It is truly sad how they continue to peddle this tripe, and the ACP in general. It is my conviction that they deviously portrayed the ACP in such a manner so as to plant a seed in the minds of their audience. The listening audience in all likelihood would not bother to look this up themselves as they would take the word of David Barton as gospel, after all, he is a ‘Christian’. Their job well done would allow their audience to go forth and tell their neighbors, church friends, and so on.
    Such deceit is beyond reproach, and is tantamount to lying in its most disgusting of forms.
    Such mountebanking from a Christian no less.

  2. William# ~ Aug 15, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    “Using similar logic, the Jehovah’s Witnesses could no doubt call themselves the leading Christian denomination in the western world.”
    And so could the Westboro Baptist Church.
    Hey Bernie, did you (or Warren) invite Rick Green to post on this blog? (I have no illusions of Barton showing up on any forum where he doesn’t control the discussion).

  3. Props to my peep Bernie!!!
    Me ‘n Bernie get around 🙂
    You done good Bernie <3

  4. Timothy, I’m not entirely sure I agree that it applies to Green’s statements concerning the ACP, but I do concur with your observations in general. Further, this phenomenon seems to be growing, feeding on itself. Once you split from reality and justify the split with a faith that must take precedence over all, the schism widens exponentially.
    The farther one moves from reality, the more one justifies that move by highlighting even more differences. In the end, many use this departure as a destination, taking literally the idea that Christians are aliens in this world, that we represent a higher TRUTH, etc. This enables all sorts of malevolent behavior in the service of the TRUTH.
    Those who don’t make the jump are considered weak for compromising the TRUTH (Alan Chambers is using that meme all over the place right now). The comparison to mental illness is perhaps apt, but it feels more cult-like to me. Perhaps there is a thin line there.

  5. Timothy, I’m not entirely sure I agree that it applies to Green’s statements concerning the ACP, but I do concur with your observations in general. Further, this phenomenon seems to be growing, feeding on itself. Once you split from reality and justify the split with a faith that must take precedence over all, the schism widens exponentially.
    The farther one moves from reality, the more one justifies that move by highlighting even more differences. In the end, many use this departure as a destination, taking literally the idea that Christians are aliens in this world, that we represent a higher TRUTH, etc. This enables all sorts of malevolent behavior in the service of the TRUTH.
    Those who don’t make the jump are considered weak for compromising the TRUTH (Alan Chambers is using that meme all over the place right now). The comparison to mental illness is perhaps apt, but it feels more cult-like to me. Perhaps there is a thin line there.

  6. Most of the comments here assume that Green knows that he was deceiving his listeners. Most assume that when he says that “leading” has a different meaning that he was just being defensive and knows better.
    I disagree.
    Green wasn’t lying or deceiving. Or, at least, not more than he was deceiving himself.
    I am becoming more and more convinced that some segments of evangelical Christianity are suffering from mental illness. A voluntary mental illness.
    Their reaction to what they see, hear, or otherwise experience is filtered through a screen of TRUTH and if it differs, it is discarded as false. A bizarre form of faith (one that is the opposite of real faith) demands that there is a separate TRUTH that comes from God which replaces whatever reality has to say.
    It doesn’t matter if the Buddhist says that he’s at peace, TRUTH says that he is miserable without Christ. It doesn’t matter that their behavior towards gay people is experiences as spiteful and hateful and possesses no attributes listed in 2 Corinthians, what you see as cruelty is actually LOVE. It doesn’t matter that ACP is a tiny ban of malcontents, FAITH says they are leading.
    And sure that is understandable in a Culture War kind of thinking in which you lead with your talking points.
    But they believe it. And that is insane.

  7. Most of the comments here assume that Green knows that he was deceiving his listeners. Most assume that when he says that “leading” has a different meaning that he was just being defensive and knows better.
    I disagree.
    Green wasn’t lying or deceiving. Or, at least, not more than he was deceiving himself.
    I am becoming more and more convinced that some segments of evangelical Christianity are suffering from mental illness. A voluntary mental illness.
    Their reaction to what they see, hear, or otherwise experience is filtered through a screen of TRUTH and if it differs, it is discarded as false. A bizarre form of faith (one that is the opposite of real faith) demands that there is a separate TRUTH that comes from God which replaces whatever reality has to say.
    It doesn’t matter if the Buddhist says that he’s at peace, TRUTH says that he is miserable without Christ. It doesn’t matter that their behavior towards gay people is experiences as spiteful and hateful and possesses no attributes listed in 2 Corinthians, what you see as cruelty is actually LOVE. It doesn’t matter that ACP is a tiny ban of malcontents, FAITH says they are leading.
    And sure that is understandable in a Culture War kind of thinking in which you lead with your talking points.
    But they believe it. And that is insane.

  8. I don’t see how the ACP could be deemed a “leading” organization in any sense of the word. I checked out their website. As far as I can tell from the site, their activities from 2004 to 2011 consist largely of 1) issuing approximately two dozen short (one- or two-page) position statements and a comparable number of short press releases, most of which simply announce the issuance of the position statements, and; 2) sending one letter to school superintendents.
    As for the first item, there is no evidence that anyone is reading these statements, let alone that they are having any impact on public health policy. The statements are so brief, so conclusiory, and cite so few authorities, it is difficult to imagine that they would or could have any meaningful impact on policy.
    The second item, the ACP’s April 2010 letter to school superintendents, paradoxically left me both confused and enlightened. I was confused b/c the ACP claims to have sent this letter “to all 14,800 school district superintendents in the U.S.” (http://www.acpeds.org/College-Cautions-Educators-About-Sexual-Orientation-in-Youth.html). However, in August 2008, the ACP denounced a brochure on sexual orientation sent by the AAP, the NEA, and APA to “all 16,000 public school superintendents in the United States.” (http://www.acpeds.org/On-the-Promotion-of-Homosexuality-in-the-Schools.html)
    One would hope that people who have the power to dispense prescriptions for children also possess a predilection for accuracy when using numbers. As I assume that must be the case with the members of the ACP, I am left to wonder what terrible fate befell 1,200 school superintendents during 2008 and 2009. I hope they are alright.
    For what it’s worth, the AAP letter to the school superintendents did enlighten me about the group. You see, the subject that the AAP thought was so important as to warrant sending its one and only letter to school superintendents was, as you might have guessed, homosexuality. Not drug abuse, not school violence, not nutrition, not the stress of economic instability and unemployment, not even sexual issues generally. No, only homosexuality moved the ACP to action. Similarly, of the 5 position statements the ACP has issued on “Sexuality Issues,” 3 are addressed to homosexuality, and 1 is directed at “gender identity.” The ACP has issued a grand total of 1 position statement on an issue, sex education, which might impact the 96% of students who identify as heterosexual. Of the 9 position statements the ACP issued on “Parenting Issues,” 3 are concerned with homosexuality and 1 with traditional marriage.
    I would suggest that these priorities do not reflect the actual health concerns regarding children in the United States, but rather reflect the same obsession with gays that we see in political organizations like in the American Family Association and the Family Research Council. Of course, the ACP can spend its time talking about whatever it likes. But it can hardly be considered a “leading” organization when it prioritizes its ideological neuroses over critical issues in pediatrics.

  9. I don’t see how the ACP could be deemed a “leading” organization in any sense of the word. I checked out their website. As far as I can tell from the site, their activities from 2004 to 2011 consist largely of 1) issuing approximately two dozen short (one- or two-page) position statements and a comparable number of short press releases, most of which simply announce the issuance of the position statements, and; 2) sending one letter to school superintendents.
    As for the first item, there is no evidence that anyone is reading these statements, let alone that they are having any impact on public health policy. The statements are so brief, so conclusiory, and cite so few authorities, it is difficult to imagine that they would or could have any meaningful impact on policy.
    The second item, the ACP’s April 2010 letter to school superintendents, paradoxically left me both confused and enlightened. I was confused b/c the ACP claims to have sent this letter “to all 14,800 school district superintendents in the U.S.” (http://www.acpeds.org/College-Cautions-Educators-About-Sexual-Orientation-in-Youth.html). However, in August 2008, the ACP denounced a brochure on sexual orientation sent by the AAP, the NEA, and APA to “all 16,000 public school superintendents in the United States.” (http://www.acpeds.org/On-the-Promotion-of-Homosexuality-in-the-Schools.html)
    One would hope that people who have the power to dispense prescriptions for children also possess a predilection for accuracy when using numbers. As I assume that must be the case with the members of the ACP, I am left to wonder what terrible fate befell 1,200 school superintendents during 2008 and 2009. I hope they are alright.
    For what it’s worth, the AAP letter to the school superintendents did enlighten me about the group. You see, the subject that the AAP thought was so important as to warrant sending its one and only letter to school superintendents was, as you might have guessed, homosexuality. Not drug abuse, not school violence, not nutrition, not the stress of economic instability and unemployment, not even sexual issues generally. No, only homosexuality moved the ACP to action. Similarly, of the 5 position statements the ACP has issued on “Sexuality Issues,” 3 are addressed to homosexuality, and 1 is directed at “gender identity.” The ACP has issued a grand total of 1 position statement on an issue, sex education, which might impact the 96% of students who identify as heterosexual. Of the 9 position statements the ACP issued on “Parenting Issues,” 3 are concerned with homosexuality and 1 with traditional marriage.
    I would suggest that these priorities do not reflect the actual health concerns regarding children in the United States, but rather reflect the same obsession with gays that we see in political organizations like in the American Family Association and the Family Research Council. Of course, the ACP can spend its time talking about whatever it likes. But it can hardly be considered a “leading” organization when it prioritizes its ideological neuroses over critical issues in pediatrics.

  10. Perhaps the Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine?

    An $800,000 bequest to Liberty University will make it possible for more LU students to afford to attend Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine (VCOM), a medical school in Blacksburg that specializes in medical missions.
    The announcement was made by LU chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. at Wednesday’s convocation. The money comes from the estate of Pauline T. Harbaugh.
    According to a letter from a Mesa, Ariz., attorney, Harbaugh’s husband, Duward, “was unable to attend medical school due to financial reasons and had always hoped that this gift to Liberty University could be used, at least in part, to assist needy students with their dreams of becoming physicians.”

  11. I would be willing to bet that no medical school uses any of the standards or materials from the ACP.

    Let’s hope the folks at Liberty University don’t see that comment in time to adjust the coming academic year’s curriculum.
    Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they already include propaganda from the ACP and other “professional” organizations.

    1. BobN – I don’t think Liberty has a medical school. If they do, then I would be wrong in my statement because I feel sure they would use ACP’s material.

  12. Perhaps the Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine?

    An $800,000 bequest to Liberty University will make it possible for more LU students to afford to attend Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine (VCOM), a medical school in Blacksburg that specializes in medical missions.
    The announcement was made by LU chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. at Wednesday’s convocation. The money comes from the estate of Pauline T. Harbaugh.
    According to a letter from a Mesa, Ariz., attorney, Harbaugh’s husband, Duward, “was unable to attend medical school due to financial reasons and had always hoped that this gift to Liberty University could be used, at least in part, to assist needy students with their dreams of becoming physicians.”

  13. @ Kurtis, And what is mystifying to me is that they intentionally wanted to mislead their impressionable audience, with saying, ‘the leading pediatric association in America’, so as to convey the mistruth that the ACP is the real McCoy, when it is not. That was my whole point from the beginning.
    They knew exactly what they were doing.

  14. I would be willing to bet that no medical school uses any of the standards or materials from the ACP.

    Let’s hope the folks at Liberty University don’t see that comment in time to adjust the coming academic year’s curriculum.
    Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they already include propaganda from the ACP and other “professional” organizations.

    1. BobN – I don’t think Liberty has a medical school. If they do, then I would be wrong in my statement because I feel sure they would use ACP’s material.

  15. @ Kurtis, And what is mystifying to me is that they intentionally wanted to mislead their impressionable audience, with saying, ‘the leading pediatric association in America’, so as to convey the mistruth that the ACP is the real McCoy, when it is not. That was my whole point from the beginning.
    They knew exactly what they were doing.

  16. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.” — Upton Sinclair
    He’s got a lot listeners, and that means advertising dollars. Everybody who could take him off the air has incentive to not care how misleading he is. It makes me sad.

  17. Shooting fish in a barrel, Warren.
    This is one problem with the “soundbyte” media culture we have. Of value:
    “We may disagree on what constitutes ‘leading’…”
    No. We don’t disagree: you’re just wrong. Not everything has two sides. In order for communication to occur, words have to have meaning. There is no definition of “leading” that makes sense there, unless you want to use very non-standard criteria, which, again, if your goal is communication means stating it up front.
    I agree with the other commenters: this is not genuine commentary — it’s propaganda.

  18. Props to my peep Bernie!!!
    Me ‘n Bernie get around 🙂
    You done good Bernie <3

  19. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.” — Upton Sinclair
    He’s got a lot listeners, and that means advertising dollars. Everybody who could take him off the air has incentive to not care how misleading he is. It makes me sad.

  20. Shooting fish in a barrel, Warren.
    This is one problem with the “soundbyte” media culture we have. Of value:
    “We may disagree on what constitutes ‘leading’…”
    No. We don’t disagree: you’re just wrong. Not everything has two sides. In order for communication to occur, words have to have meaning. There is no definition of “leading” that makes sense there, unless you want to use very non-standard criteria, which, again, if your goal is communication means stating it up front.
    I agree with the other commenters: this is not genuine commentary — it’s propaganda.

    1. Kurtis – I agree it is easy. What is mystifying to me is that the fish seems to swim with a force field.

  21. William# ~ Aug 15, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    “Using similar logic, the Jehovah’s Witnesses could no doubt call themselves the leading Christian denomination in the western world.”
    And so could the Westboro Baptist Church.
    Hey Bernie, did you (or Warren) invite Rick Green to post on this blog? (I have no illusions of Barton showing up on any forum where he doesn’t control the discussion).

  22. Using similar logic, the Jehovah’s Witnesses could no doubt call themselves the leading Christian denomination in the western world.

  23. Using similar logic, the Jehovah’s Witnesses could no doubt call themselves the leading Christian denomination in the western world.

  24. If “leading” Christian figures in this country do not stop promoting their lies to the faithful, then someday they may find they have no more faithful to lie to.

  25. It is truly sad how they continue to peddle this tripe, and the ACP in general. It is my conviction that they deviously portrayed the ACP in such a manner so as to plant a seed in the minds of their audience. The listening audience in all likelihood would not bother to look this up themselves as they would take the word of David Barton as gospel, after all, he is a ‘Christian’. Their job well done would allow their audience to go forth and tell their neighbors, church friends, and so on.
    Such deceit is beyond reproach, and is tantamount to lying in its most disgusting of forms.
    Such mountebanking from a Christian no less.

  26. If “leading” Christian figures in this country do not stop promoting their lies to the faithful, then someday they may find they have no more faithful to lie to.

Comments are closed.