Well, I can’t actually verify this but it might look something like this.
Here is a little better view of it.
I might be done for the night; I am not sure I can watch this. FOX just called VA at 10:41pm for Obama. Virginia.
Jedi mind tricks.
Some GOP people I talk to hope for buyer’s remorse and a resurgence in the mid-term elections in 2010. As a historical parallel, Bill Clinton, in 1992, met immediate problems with his health care initiatives; one wonders if Obama’s pledge to make the Freedom of Choice Act his first legislative priority could be a parallel. There are any number of liberal proposals that Obama would do well to wait to move on if he wants to avoid what happened during the first Clinton term. The Contract with America came along in 1994 and helped revitalize the GOP.
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Congratulation president Obama2012
Congratulation America.
Congratulation …Democracy
Great Nation.
Democratic competition election for the best intrest of Americans.
No country on this globe, has this great democracy… Congratulation America.
Mohammed Migdady
Canada
@Lynn David
You are right English is not my nativa language. If I made you answer my post base in my poor grammar choices, then sorry. And thank you for your grammar class.
I see a step towards socialism because what Obama said he will like to do is nothing more than a socialist principle. I don’t want you to misunderstandme more on this theme, so read post # 14077 by David Blakeslee. That is what I meant.
You are also assuming too many things. Packing stuff doesn’t means leaving, it means getting ready. Probably no drastic change under Obama, I’m crossing my fingers just in case. However what you don’t realise is american are no different than germans or any other european, as a matter of fact there is a big chunck of german descents. Why do you think germans lived under socialist rule for so many years? Do you think they liked? Do you think hungarians didn’t try to get off socialism? Believe when I said once they take over it is almost impossible to shake them off your back. Watch “The live of others” it is a german movie about what it is to live under a police state. Why one out of three cubans drown trying to get here? Also believe the new ways to get a socialist regime is not by violent means anymore. They are using democracy tools. ELECTIONS.
Then perhaps you should take note of something. Paragraphs are usually meant to represent a singular thought in the English language. Thus when you pointed out “the bottom 40% of the lower earners … goverment is sending the food stamps, the welfare checks and their health insurance is taken care of, is not helping, never helped and will never help those people get on their feet…” – All in one paragraph, the personal pronouns/adjectives that you used all referred back to “the bottom 40% of the lower earners.” So all I can do is suggest you pay better care to the structure of the paragraphs which you write in the future. Because that paragraph did tie in your “bottom 40” with the government aid which you listed. English is a precise language in that respect, and I understand it may not be your native tongue.
FAC, you have said the following:
You seem sure that socialism is coming and don’t like it. You left one country for the USA because of it. And now someone gets elected that seems to have triggered your “sense.” So I have told you, fine… go. You left before, why not now? I, however, love this country and will fight for it. I have no desire to leave. No, I am not American Indian, I harbor no special claim for this country over anyone else. I am simply making my remarks based on what you have said. You “smell socialism” with the election of Obama and “have [your] stuff packed.” So then I can only assume that you’ll only stay in America as long as America doesn’t smell “socialist” to you. You are the one saying you are ready and willing to leave – so all I said was goodbye.
@ Mary
“Nickle and Dimed …”
Mary, we live in a unfair world. That’s granted. If you read my earlier post I have no problem with society helping the less afortunates. The other day I saw a old couple with a grown up down syndrome son in his 40’s. What will happen to that guy when his parents are no longer arround. That guy has the right to society help and society is responsible to cover his needs. As well as the single mother/father or a disabled person, whoever has a real need should get help. Now again my “however”. The book shows how irresponsible people are. I really don’t understand how a grown up could be waiting tables or flipping hamburgers at a fast food shop. That is a job for teenagers or students who are people just starting in their labor life. Or people looking for a second income to save for other purposes. In this country you can be anything you want to be, you have all the opportunities no other country in the world has. If you have being jumping from one low paid job to another without stability in your life, sorry, why should I help you? You can start in a low paid job and with hard work climb to a better position, that happens everyday. You have help to go to college, why didn’t you took that opportunity to do something with your life? I’m sorry, society shouldn’t be held responsible for taking care of peoples mistakes. The same way it is unfair to deny help to whoever really needs it, it is also unfair to take away some citizens money to paid for others mistakes. The more we seek the goverment to help with any kind of problems, the more powerful it will grow and the more money will be needed to cover all that. Everytime a “problem” is solved , a new one arises. As our founding fathers forsaw the role of the goverment should be minimal.
@Mary
“IT IS DAMN DIFFICULT TO RAISE A CHILD ALONE.”
Mary, we need more responsability. With DNA and others means you can have the father accountable for his actions and make him responsable for that child support. If you are a single mom, society should be responsible in helping rise your child. It is in society best interest. However, it also should have the mother accountable for that help. It cost society a lot of money in order to support the needs of its citizens. My point is we need a way to verify and make people responsible for that help. If you are a single mother with 1 kid, I have a problem if you came every year with a new kid and ask for more help. or You start living with a boyfriend and still getting the help as a single mom. The problem is in the people who abuse the system, and believe me there are a very high percentage of them. How high that percentage is? Who knows. The goverment is only interesed in writing the checks in order to get more votes.After all it is not their money they are giving away, so why bother? And that is a problem, because it is not only the money that actually goes to the needy, you have to consider the growing bureucracy that is needed to do that. After a while you have a whole new class of bureucrats with benefits and privileges even supperiors to the people they are taking the money from. The money the goverment spend just to distribute that help is huge. If you compare it with the work of the church in giving help we will better off(taxes wise) giving the money to your church and let the priest deal with that. They have way more experience than the goverment doing that and our taxes will be 10%.
@minty
In 1961 taxes were that high you are right. However IMHO JFK said if you want to stimulate the economy you need to lower taxes.It doesn’t matter what the taxes levels are, you need to lower them period. If the economy is in trouble and upper taxes are 10% you need to lower then to anything lower than 10%.
@Lynn David
“You have a rather cliche’d viewpoint about what America is about. Most of those in that lower 40% aren’t on food stamps, don’t get welfare checks, nor do they have government health care or even private health care. You have a very dim view of the realities concerning the American people”
Read againg, I didn’t say the lower 40% was on food stamp. I said the lower 40% are ther for a reason. Some have food stamps, others not, some have medic aid, others some kind of state sponsored health program. I know that because I had worked in govermental offices dealing with people in medic aid programs. I know there are people that genuinely need help either temporary or permanent. I’m talking the people that abuse the system. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you better review your viewpoint, the cliche’ viewpoint could be yours.
“I realized that. But you made it sound as if America was only on a worthy of a waypoint on your search for a your version of a super-capitalist heaven with your bags packed and ready to go…. so I said you probably might as well go. Afterall, you then went on to post this after what I have quoted above:
FAC: I don’t know if Warren “lament” will ever take place, unfortunatelly, there are millions(including myself) who had to actually go beyond that “lament” and leave friends, family and country behind because of that. We have “developed” a special sense to detect anything that smells socialism, communism or whatever left theory out there. That is something few here ever experienced.
Fine…. you and all your fellow “millions” follow your special sense…. Go! Find a better place and then come back and brag about it to us poor, dim-witted Americans.”
I’m sensing a personal tone in your comments. You are making the concept of freedom and personal responsability as my own. Believe me, I didn’t create that concept, read our constitution.
There are millions that had to escape from some kind of tyrany or oppression including the passengers in the Mayflower. You are not american indian right?
In your oppinion only who agree with you is worthy call them americans? Because you are placing me in a non-american group just because I disagree with you. That my friend is stalinism. If America become a place where people who think like you are in charge and get to change into something different of what America is all about, then I’ll take the Mayflower back to another port. i can save you a seat if you want.:)
Has anyone ever read the book Nickle and Dimed in America??
http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805088385/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226032839&sr=8-1
Some of you who think that low pay is about small effort – think again. Or rather read something.
Now, throw in some minor upset like a sick child or ailing parent. Things are bad out there. We once believed that slavery was abolished. But it isn’t. We just have “some” employee rights that prevent the abuse of others. It doesn’t prevent employers from requiring hard work (say 39 hours) for minimum wage and falling just below the full time employee status (where other benefits are supposed to kick in)
As to healthcare, I have a step sister who is considered a brittle diabetic. If she were to shop for healthcare in the open market she would be denied or pay a huge amount – well over 1000.00 a month. She is only 40 years old. She is currently under a plan through a family member. And she needs health care or she would die in a short time. She has a college education, is a single mother, and cannot afford to live on her own. The father of her child pays little to nothing towards child support. She attends a church that provides much support to homeless people but she does not take any assistance. Granted, I have issues with some of her choices – but as anyone who knows me, I’m apt to aim at most people, myself included – yet, she is like many, many people out there. It’s not one issue or one item that has temporarily set her back. It is several that have held her back and she is unable to move forward.
Now multiply this to the nation. We are living in stuck world.
Besides, and O’Reilly spot would have simply had him preaching to the choir! I can’t imagine that would have helped.
Drowssap –
I think he was simply exhausted!
jayhuck
I know he was out there but it felt like he just didn’t have any of the right umph in him. Either that or he just went crazy. He should have taken the free 30 minute Oreilly spot during the Obamafomercial.
I dunno, maybe he was trying. It just felt like his spirit was less.
You have a rather cliche’d viewpoint about what America is about. Most of those in that lower 40% aren’t on food stamps, don’t get welfare checks, nor do they have government health care or even private health care. You have a very dim view of the realities concerning the American people.
I realized that. But you made it sound as if America was only on a worthy of a waypoint on your search for a your version of a super-capitalist heaven with your bags packed and ready to go…. so I said you probably might as well go. Afterall, you then went on to post this after what I have quoted above:
Fine…. you and all your fellow “millions” follow your special sense…. Go! Find a better place and then come back and brag about it to us poor, dim-witted Americans.
I shouldn’t use the word conservative; but when I have done so recently, I have used it only in the economic respect as that has been the tenor of most of the arguments Warren has recently introduced.
It is more proper, perhaps, to use the terms right/center/left to describe a person’s economic thought. Social thought should probably be described as either authoritarian/center/libertarian. Unfortunately, we have a Libertarian party in the US, but most there are less socially libertine than the name would truly entail and use it more to describe an extremist economic position.
So I think of a political thought as a two-dimensional plain with an x-axis representing economic thought and a y-axis comprising social thinking. To be ecomomically-right is to be positive along the x-axis and to be socially-authoritarian would be along the positive y-axis. Thus many if not most Americans then lie in the (+,+) quadrant. Although there are some who lie in the (-,-) quadrant. If you consider the value on each axis to go from -10 to +10 then the Republican party in America lies at about (+6,+5), McCain perhaps a (+6,+4), and then most Democrats at (+4,+3), and Obama at about (+3,+2).
Sarkozy is at about (+1,+6), which is surprisingly close to where Hitler would be placed at (0,+8) and someone like Stalin/Khruschev at (-2,+9). It’s all about how you express that thought because even the Catholic Pope would be set at about (-1,+7). In contrast the thinking of Ghandi places him somewhere about (-4,-4) and Ron Paul at about (+9,+3), although most of Paul’s libertine effort is directed towards economic freedoms not social ones.
That’s how I view the political spectrum.
How about leglislation that holds the male donor of sperm accountable to the woman he impregnates and the child he produces. (I’m not talking about sperm banks here) I’m talking about the guy who decided to sleep with the woman. We have the technology. We can counsel him before sex or run his DNA after the fact.
If a man does not want the responsibility, then he had better think twice about having sex, being fertile, and running to the next girl.
Our culture is certainly still backwards when it continues to focusing on the woman who needs the counseling, the aftercare, the support and all without mentioning that we can now track the father. This will go a long ways into the decison making of abortions.
IT IS DAMN DIFFICULT TO RAISE A CHILD ALONE.
“And there are many programs available to help women who keep their babies, funded and staffed by pro-lifers.”
Yes there are Warren! 🙂 And some operated and staffed by people who might not be thought of as “pro-lifers” in the traditional sense!
I’m curious what YOU have done to help these women though? Do you volunteer at such places? I’m curious because I’d like to. Do you support the death penalty?
I have mixed feelings and not enough information on FOCA and the notifications it may impact. We’ll have to table that discussion.
@jayhuck: FYI – The Freedom of Choice Act would invalidate all of those parental notifications. And there are many programs available to help women who keep their babies, funded and staffed by pro-lifers.
Warren,
I don’t think that you and I see eye to eye on abortions – I’m fairly certain you know that. I’m all for legislation limiting abortions if we’re trying to protect teenagers, or if we are hoping to give women alternatives TO abortion – I am NOT however for legislation that prohibits a grown woman’s right to abortion. I’m of the mind its a necessary evil. Here again, though, would be a good time to ask everyone what we’ve done to help women who are facing such a decision. What helpful counsel or alternatives do we work to provide women who might be thinking about an abortion – Do we settle on doing nothing – Are we active in groups that think its a good idea to thrust pictures of mangled fetuses in women’s faces or antagonize and frighten women who access abortion clinics? Do we call ourselves pro-life and then support the death penalty? Is all life everywhere sacred or is only some life in certain places worth saving? What does being Pro-Life really mean? And maybe we should remind ourselves, again, what it was like when abortion was actually illegal?
When it comes to social programs, I think all of us, and our country, would benefit greatly from less criticism and more volunteering and donating and “all that stuff” 🙂
@jayhuck: How about volunteering and donating and all that stuff AND crafting legislation to limit abortions?
Nothing in my concerns about the FOCA prohibits help to the poor.
Mary,
🙂
It’s called being accessible to those who are in need. Are our doors really open? I am guilty for gathering up treasures on earth and not helping to meet the needs of others.
Concerned,
I know many conservatives who won’t, as you say, “go near those people” either. Our needy neighbors don’t need us knocking the other side down, they need us, they DO need relationships, they need help getting jobs, and often they do need money to help them get back on their feet, out of tremendous debt, or to get the education they need to better themselves.
I didn’t write what I did above to knock down any particular political group or ideology because we have ALL fallen short when it comes to caring for our neighbor in need.
Jayhuck,
I agree, it is not what we give that counts but how we welcome the poor back into society. That does not mean handouts, that is degrading. It means assistance to those who want to move out of the situations they find themselves in. For many that is a matter of establishing relationships that help them come to see their own value. I know many liberals in my work area and in my country who do not want to go close to “those people”. They feel their conscience is satisfied if they give some money, usually to a cause that fits their political agenda rather than where it is really needed.
Rather than complain about social programs, I wonder how much good it would do us – both Democrats and Republicans, and everyone in between – to think about how we help the poor and the needy. We are called to do that as Christians, and I’m sure we’ve all given money to a cause, but giving money, while obviously needed, isn’t the same thing as meeting the poor, the needy, the homeless face to face and talking to them. I know I’ve become pretty lax when it comes to volunteering – its something I’d like to get back into. What are we doing as individuals to help our less-fortunate neighbors – apart from hoping something good will occur from trickle-down economics?
David B –
“The “Center” that you imagine Obama will govern from is very far left of the “Center” which existed in 1904, 1924, 1954, 1984 and 2004 (even with Bush’s expansion of medicare and taking more of the working poor off the tax rolls).”
The same could easily have been said of McCain if he had won. Given his moderate stance on many issues, I wonder whether he really would have dismantled any “social” programs!
I know that it is common for Republicans to speak ill of social programs. Which ones don’t work though? Are all social programs bad? Where is the evidence for this coming from? What ARE some creative alternatives? Where does most of our money actually go? Who thought it was a good idea to offer tax refunds which only served to further our already enormous collective debt?
Drowssap –
McCain campaigned his heart out after the financial crisis hit – right up to the day of the election. You and I must have been seeing different things.
The top tax rate was over 90% when Kennedy took office. I bet even Hugo Chavez would agree that 90% is too high lol… “Woah senor! That’s socialism!”
David Blakeslee,
From an economic point of view, you might be right about how Europeans deal with social security and labour rights — the social democrat influence is pretty strong because of our political history. Where I live – in an European country – we have a flat tax (both for corporate profit and individual income), a very low one at that. You live in a country with a progressive taxation system. Now Obama wants to go even further and collect more money from upper income brackets. I fail to see how does that make him more right-wing than European policy makers. He looks pretty social-democrat to me in European terms. Moderate right-wingers in Europe are more conservative than Obama, they are economically neoliberal supporting free market forces, private ownership of utilities, etc, but they also support traditional Christian values. Most European democracies right now are managed by centre-right leaders from Christian Democratic parties. They oppose socialism and radical secularism and support conservative values and economic liberalism.
Do you think Obama’s and Pelosi’s Democratic party is the same as JFK’s?
Check this out:
“It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.”
– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president’s news conference.
“Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government.”
– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964.
Does it sound like the democratic party of today? I don’t think so. It is scary that JFK said that about forty somthing years ago. Do you realise it is only one generation away?
@Evan ~ Nov 6, 2008 at 9:10 am
140965
“Extreme right in Europe, or far right, is mostly fascist or ultranationalist. For instance, there is a far right party in my country which glorifies the execution of the enemies of the people. They are xenophobic, they opposed foreign ownership of land in our country, they promote hate speech against ethnic minorities and so on. Do you have something similar in the US at the centre of the political spectrum?”
C’man of course I know that, also the extreme right is diferent in many ways depending what country you are talking about. FYI fascists were national socialist, contrary to many people thinks, they were a socialist party.
I think eastern Europe probably has more ultra-right wing parties than western Europe. People tend to swing away from the center whenever there is a drastic political change. BTW I was using figurative language. e.g. today left wing will be the center tomorrow is depending if we continue the actual path. I was being speculative. From Wikipedia “Speculative reason or pure reason is theoretical (or logical, deductive) thought (sometimes called theoretical reason), as opposed to practical (active, willing) thought.”. 🙂
@jayhuck
“Playing the race card when it comes to Colin Powell is far too easy an explanation for his decision – the man is incredibly intelligent. I’d agree that race may have played a part in others’ decisions, but not his!”
Really? Can you came up with another powerful reason to vote against your party and your fundamental philosophical principles? When you are Collin Powell you know this kind of anouncement by a person like him will be a bomb. So, tell me beside being both men black what else they have in common? Do you know any black in this country that actually voted for McCain? I bet you can use your fingers to count them.I think you hasn’t got the grasp for what we votes last 11-4. Do you think it was about race? Maybe for black people, but no for others. We actually gave to the extreme left in this country “carte blanche” to act. You don’t have to believe me, I’m not expecting you do.
Warren,
What I meant when comparing center here with right in Europe was to emphasize the direction US is taking. I’m sorry I wasn’t clear.
You are right about your concerns about what will happens from now on. I’m even a little more pessimist than you are. I don’t think socialist leadership in the White House, House, Senate , and possible the Supreme Court. will be standing still. We have given to much power to a single party with radical points. I don’t think of anything that will stop them to do what they have planned and said they will do.
Wow, I didn’t see David Blakeslee 140977 post. That was exactly was I was trying to say. D… broken English.;)
When the financial crisis hit I got the weird feeling that McCain purposely threw the election. It’s like he didn’t really try after that. OReilly offered him a free 30 minute interview on his TV show the week of the Obamafomercial and he turned it down. Why would McCain turn down free media the last week of a campaign? It makes no sense if he was trying to close the gap.
Anyway the economy is in the toilet. Maybe he didn’t want to get blamed for the mess. We are headed into a long, deep depression.
Credit Card Bond Sales at Zero, First Time Since 1993
Lynn David
Wasn’t Obama rated the #1 Liberal in the entire U.S. Senate last year? I would assume that with a strong Dem majority in both the House and Senate he’s going to govern from the left.
If Ron Paul was the president and the GOP owned both houses of Congress I wouldn’t anticipated they’d govern from the center.
Nearly every western democracy is governing from the Left so that even when European or Canadian democracies move back to the right (like France, Germany and Italy) they are moving so far from the left that they still are governing from the left of Obama.
That is how Sarkosy. a conservative, ends up governing to the left of Obama.
Govern from the Center??
That all depends what the definition of “is” is…
My impression is that we are, already, a much more socialist nation than we were 100 years ago, 50 years ago and even 8 years ago.
Putting the brakes on that transformation is a worthy goal, but it is not the same as dismantling socialist programs that are costly, spur dependency and interfere with the creation of creative alternatives.
The point I am making is that those who advocate socialist solutions to public policy problems have been winning either in large chunks, or small steps for nearly 4 generations…
The “Center” that you imagine Obama will govern from is very far left of the “Center” which existed in 1904, 1924, 1954, 1984 and 2004 (even with Bush’s expansion of medicare and taking more of the working poor off the tax rolls).
Is America really “falling behind” because we are not taking enough money from producers and giving it to the struggling? No.
The programs we have put in place for the last 100 years have ameliorated some of our guilt and transformed the lives of some.
More Socialism is not the solution. Even “milder” Center Left Socialism.
@FAC: While I am not expert in European politics, I resist the idea that the center here is the far right in Europe. Pelosi is left anywhere. If your point is that Europe is more liberal than the US, you are probably correct. However, governing from the center here would mean a much more conservative social issues stance than Obama has articulated and a resistance to the socialist impulse. I see nothing in Obama’s past lives that would presage a centrist stance. I think many in the US will be surprised at the change they have bought if Obama governs in the manner of his mentoring and prior stances.
FAC-
Playing the race card when it comes to Colin Powell is far too easy an explanation for his decision – the man is incredibly intelligent. I’d agree that race may have played a part in others’ decisions, but not his!
FAC wrote: ‘Center in the US is extreme right wing in Europe.‘
Extreme right in Europe, or far right, is mostly fascist or ultranationalist. For instance, there is a far right party in my country which glorifies the execution of the enemies of the people. They are xenophobic, they opposed foreign ownership of land in our country, they promote hate speech against ethnic minorities and so on. Do you have something similar in the US at the centre of the political spectrum?
Lynn David,
I asked you on a different topic, what do you mean when you say that Sarkozy is more liberal than Obama?
Lynn David ~ Nov 6, 2008 at 6:09 am
140940
“Warren: He may govern from the center but it would be a first.
Please…. so many like yourself wouldn’t recognize the center if it bit you between your legs. You’d swear you got bashed up along the left side of your head. ”
Center in the US is extreme right wing in Europe. Center today was the left yaesterday and will be the right tomorrow. Pelosi would be a rabid right wing extremist in Europe. The world is shifting to the left, we are not alone. Every since the collapse of the socialist block the world is moving faster to the left. It should be the other way arround. Why it is happening? Just think about the millions of comunists in all those countries. Do you think they gave up? There is a comedy movie “A Blast from the Past” where Christopher Walken made a very profound comment about the communist giving up so easilly. I believe they are just re-grouping and changing strategies. I bet you will never see againg another revolution like cuban or sandinistas. They learned that using the democracy tools is more easy and cheaper that funding a revolution. Check all South America new socialist presidents taking power without firing a bullet. I remember the green party the first time they got a seat at german parliament. in the 80’s and later form a coallition with the socialists. It was yesterday (historically speaking). Today we got a worldwide environmentalist movement aiming to destroy capitalism. Fells like Dorothy down the hole. Lets see where it leads.:(
Please…. so many like yourself wouldn’t recognize the center if it bit you between your legs. You’d swear you got bashed up along the left side of your head.
I don’t know what that means but it sounded good to me when I first thought of it. Obama is in in the center though, he is even more right than Sarkozy of France. I’ve had friends over there complaining about him for that reason. Heck, they even consider Sarkozy to be conservative.
@jayhuck ~
FYI, I think Colin Powell is a great guy, an a patriot. He has my respect for what he has done for all of us. The fact he is a republican it not neccessary means he is a consrvative. I really believe he weighted in more the racial issue over the economics. I believe he though it was better for the country we elect a black man for president than a shift to the left we might never correct again. I respectfully disagree with him. I don’t think he sold his fundamental principles about capitalism as the engine for our society. If he did, he will lost my respect and admiration.
About the economist, it means nothing. All this come to support my beliefs about the media being the real power behind Obama. No wonder one of the first thing Chavez and Castro among others did was to nationalized or gag the free press . They can be a formidable enemy or an priceless ally. I really can’t put how much money in free advertising for Obama the media spent. I think it was in the billions. Certainlly you can’t say the madia helped McCain at all. Beside Fox who else did anything for McCain? So, the balance really tripped to one side only.
Sadly, we live in a convenience sociaty where people use the less effort to get anything, including information. They accept without questioning anything the media throw at them. Againg, read this:
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm
@Lynn David ~ Nov 5, 2008 at 5:34 am
140721
“Gee…. considering you don’t think that people work hard here in America or that we are a democratic republic, I might be tempted to tell you to get out. ”
Well, I really believe that at least the bottom 40% of the lower earners are there for a reason. You can think otherwise, that is your oppinion. Some people call it bad luck, not enough opportunities, bad neighborhood, disrupted family environment, the weather, GOD, the aliens, etc, etc. I call it not enough effort. The assurance the goverment is sending the food stamps, the welfare checks and their health insurance is taken care of, is not helping, never helped and will never help those people get on their feet, on the contrarie, it is helding them there. That is all about what your party need to get elected over and over, the bigger the loosers, the more power they get.
I have an arsenal of quotes, this one is one of my favorites you might like it:
“A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.” – George Bernard Shaw
About you tempted to tell me to go out, I’ll consider it a slip of your mind. THIS IS MY COUNTRY AS IT IS YOURS. As a matter of fact I choose it over others, I made a choice. I elect a country with values I didn’t see any other place in the world, and made it my own. I’m proud of what this country have accomplishe over the last 200 plus years. It is the reason why every day when I woke up in the morning I thank GOD for being here and my kids were born free. For all I know, you may be proud for the same reasons Michelle Obama is.I don’t know, and I don’t care.
@ Lynn
“My quip at Warren was a good-natured dig, and I am sure he knows it. He posted a “lament” to me a while back which said (-:and I almost heard him wailing when I read it:-), “I don’t want to live in a socialist country.””
I don’t know if Warren “lament” will ever take place, unfortunatelly, there are millions(including myself) who had to actually go beyond that “lament” and leave friends, family and country behind because of that. We have “developed” a special sense to detect anything that smells socialism, communism or whatever left theory out there. That is something few here ever experienced.
@lynn:
“Huh… all you have to do to know that is to look at all the religions of the world. Since each is in a majority in any one area, your statement would seem to nullify most all if not all of them.
But we may never know, “what is right.” That may be for history to evalutate.”
Civil Rights Act of 1964, that sound a bell? Before that it was “normal” to discriminate black people, for the average Joe, it was right. The majority of americans see that unfair treatment as normal. As a matter of fact, lynching a black guy was a pure “democracy” example. The majority “elected” to lynch the poor guy. In nazy Germany, the majority of them supported Hitler goverment. At least in the beginning. Again, in my oppinion, the fact that people elected Obama for president is wrong from the economic and fundamental point of view. On the other side it is very possitive in the sense we show as a nation that can heal itself. Also we show those jerks in Europe a lesson about civilism. I wish Obama wasn’t so radical. That’s all.
Obama won because the church so casually gave away its reponsibilties.
Tell it! 😀 The good vibes for Obama from around the world are intangible, but real.
Y’all keep dissing Carter, but in retrospect was he really that bad?
– given the astronomical oil price shocks of the 70’s, it’s arguable that even Bismark would have had a rough time as President
– his energy policy did cut the amount of oil imported by half, setting the stage for the cheap oil of the 1980’s Oil Glut, and the 1980’s economic boom
– He appointed Paul Volcker to administer tough love the economy and eliminate the double-digit inflation – destroying his chances for reelection, but again, setting the stage for the 1980’s economic boom
Eh. This might be a case of “had to be there though”… and he was inept at working with Congress etc etc..
Minty – in keeping with your post –
“It’s the answer spoken by young and old, rich and poor, Democrat and Republican, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, gay, straight, disabled and not disabled. Americans who sent a message to the world that we have never been just a collection of individuals or a collection of red states and blue states.
It’s the answer that led those who’ve been told for so long by so many to be cynical and fearful and doubtful about what we can achieve to put their hands on the arc of history and bend it once more toward the hope of a better day. “
Obama was about hope for many, which is one of the reasons he was elected. I liked that he made it a point to say that change would NOT happen overnight, and that a great deal of work lay ahead of us. I was also pleased to see how leaders around the world responded to his win.
Warren,
You “suspect” or you hope? 😉
Gay has a pretty well-established meaning for most people! 🙂
David B – trust me, the fight in California has just started. 🙂
I could have lived with McCain too. This is probably the first election we’ve had in a long time where I could say I’d be OK with either of the two presidential candidates – but giving gay people a place at the table was a deal-breaker for me!
Here’s a reassuring, subtle observation from Mickey Kaus – who usually bugs me to death but is crazy smart – about Obama’s victory speech.
Basically this points to a cautious foreign and domestic policy, although of course we’ll see. One of the tests will be card-check legislation. The fate of union-based public schools and the American auto industry is very sad and resounding evidence of the deleterous effect of unions to compete in the long-term.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfiles/default.aspx
But anyways.. gl to Obama and yeah I teared up a bit last night. 😀
Re post 140744, I’m sure it all depends on what a person’s definition of GAY is.
———————
But more to the topic:
Obama was my candidate but I could have lived with McCain. It seems that we lose sight of two important things: the fact that every vote represents a voice and the fact that we have a system designed to protect against irreversible damage.
To the first point, I’d like to admonish the hate-speakers on both sides that you aren’t just trashing the candidate or the party, you’re trashing approximately half the country that happens to agree with them. I work in an office that’s pretty young. In their jubilance this morning they got a bit carried away and started talking ill of Rebublicans in general. Things took an interesting turn, when one out of the conversing group surprised the rest with the revelation that he was one of the ‘others’, the Republicans that they were trashing. A young, ‘cool’ workmate…a Republican? Go figure!
To the second point, we have a system that was established by people who were guarded against any one person or group gaining permanent dominance and control. I, personally, feel that we simply need the switch off every so often; it seems to produce a better balance in the long run. It’s not just going to be President Obama but it’s going to be those he surrounds himself with–from both sides (more correctly, ALL sides…I really wish we were a 3 or 4 party system.)
LOL. Suddenly I’m humming: Acc. CENT. u. ate the POS.i.tive….
Pam – Yep, Carter.
Obama is a better politician than Jimmy Carter but I cannot say what he will do. Based on what he has (not) done in his prior offices, we are headed for rougher times ahead.
Drowssap is probably right, we were a little better able to handle tough times then. And perhaps, Obama’s advisers will be able to restrain Obama’s collectivist mentoring.
He may govern from the center but it would be a first.
I suspect there will be many experiences this next year among those who voted for him saying to themselves, ‘I didn’t know he favored that…’
I agree that my trust is in a Higher Authority but I still have eyes to see and kids to raise and I am concerned for where things are heading.
If anybody wants to know what is really going on in the U.S. economy here is a clip that explains it. Investor Peter Schiff explains the current crisis. How we got here, where we really are and where we are going as a nation.
He touches briefly on Obama, McCain and politics in general. It is an awesome clip and Peter talks in a way that just about anyone can understand.
Warren
You are right but there is one huge difference between the 1970s stagflation and the approaching stagflation. Even though the 70s sucked we had a sound economy underneath. America had a huge reservoir of savings and we were the biggest creditor nation in the world. We also had tremendous industrial might.
Today we are the biggest debtor nation in the world and have no reservoir of savings. Our industrial might is gone and good jobs are leaving by the millions.
The sad part is we just elected a guy who wants to keep everything the exact same! He wants to grow the existing failed system with more regulation, more spending, more taxes. This should probably be much worse than the 1970s.
Dr. T.
Carter??? Seriously???
Come on guy! I graciously remind you to take your own advice that you were giving to those poor women placing all their hopes for a better economic future on Obama…
Maybe it works the other way as well…maybe you don’t need to believe that things are going to fall COMPLETELY apart either…..
Put it in perspective and remember who is REALLY in charge. What can one man really do to you??? Really??
love ya!!
your fellow Christ-follower,
pam
If my math is right, Obama didn’t bring in more people to vote than in the last election (121 mil vs. 117 mil total). There may be an update of numbers over the next week.
Interesting.
It suggests that the maverick strategy of appealing to independents could not and did not work for McCain.
With similar numbers from the previous election, it appears that independents whom McCain catered to his whole career did not see him as “their guy.”
Like his core constituency (the media, by his own joke), when it came time to pony up support, they evaporated.
In other news, the California Marriage amendment….
Stunning, when you think about it.
Lynn David – Yep, good natured dig it was, and laughed amidst my tears. No harm done.
Seriously, we survived the Carter years…
However, if Obama pushes through and signs a tax increase on the 5 (10?)% upper income earners as we lurch into a recession, I am nervous about the damage that will do.
Ok, enough of that, I have to go change the bandages…
And Hey, if TE isn’t conservative enough – lets not forget Colin Powell 🙂
The beautiful thing last night is that for the first time in a long time, a president used the word GAY when describing groups that deserve a place at the table – WOW 🙂
FAC –
It should comfort you some to know that the fairly conservative magazine The Economist endorsed Obama. It is not their policy to back socialists – fyi 🙂
Gee…. considering you don’t think that people work hard here in America or that we are a democratic republic, I might be tempted to tell you to get out.
My quip at Warren was a good-natured dig, and I am sure he knows it. He posted a “lament” to me a while back which said (-:and I almost heard him wailing when I read it:-), “I don’t want to live in a socialist country.”
Huh… all you have to do to know that is to look at all the religions of the world. Since each is in a majority in any one area, your statement would seem to nullify most all if not all of them.
But we may never know, “what is right.” That may be for history to evalutate.
All I know is that the non-aligned Tax Policy Center determined that McCain’s economic policies would put the USA in the red by five trillion dollars more; while Obama’s would increase deficits by just over one trillion dollars. Thus it appears that Obama can more easily adjust his plan to the needs of the current economic situation; while McCain would likely be stumped – he admits economics aren’t his strong suit.
@ jayhuck
140688
“I have to say, I was TRULY impressed by the graciousness of McCain’s concession speech! He is a good man, but ………………………. ”
Yes, I agree he is a good man. Do you remember Gore and Kerry? What a difference of characters.!!!!
Guys I just want to remind you that the fact he won, doesn’t mean that it is right. Being a majority in an issue not neccesary means being right. That is why we are not a democracy but a republic.
IMHO the only thing that has been proved is the real power of the media. Now you realise why it is called the fourth power.
@Lynn David
“So Warren…. when are you leaving the [socialist] country? Is your new home in Singapore?”
Hi there, FYI I have my stuff packed. It will be the second time I have to escape from a “socialist heaven”. The big difference is I’m not affraid to start over, work harder, and not ask for the goverment to give me somebodyelse’s hard earned money in order to put food in my kids mouths. That is something a lot of people in this country don’t have. At least 40% of Obama’s supporters fall in that category.
And you know who they are.
I think McCain was before you, Drowssap.
So Warren…. when are you leaving the [socialist] country? Is your new home in Singapore?
DOH!!! Well that was a buttkicking. Let me be the first to swear allegiance to our new socialist overlord. 😎
Warren,
When it comes to healthcare, I’m not sure if the enormity of the problem had hit as many Americans in 1992 as it has over the last 16 years. I do agree that Obama needs to work to bridge divides and on being moderate in many areas. I guess we shall see. Buyer’s remorse seems to be what got Obama into the Whitehouse today.
I have to say, I was TRULY impressed by the graciousness of McCain’s concession speech! He is a good man, but I am so incredibly excited and energized by this historic election! Woo-hoo 🙂