I think we all know that homosexuality and its related issues have become a focal point for this age. There’s just no escaping it. Whether it is gay civil rights, clarifying guidelines and reasonable outcomes for therapy and ministry help, educating the church and greater community on the bigger picture or
“bridging the gap” — we are in a moment that I believe our sovereign God has brought us to. It’s up to us — those who are appointed from all sides — to make the most of it.

I couldn’t agree more

I think you know what sexual addiction recovery is. Exodus in its statement does not imply this applies to all gay people or to only gay people; that is your generalization. Many ex-gays/post-gays acknowledge sexual addiction in their past.

Yes I know this, but the problem many ex-gay ministries have had – at least in the past, even the recent past – is that they state/stated that issues like sexual addiction, drug addiction,alcohol addiction, are problems that stem from one’s orientation – they often wouldn’t seem to separate the two, when they of course they WOULD if the client were straight. THAT is a problem and one that needs to be corrected – if that is already happening in such groups then I applaud them.

There have been gay clients in the past too that thought if they became straight their issues with things like addiction would go away, and this is patently false – but I feel that some ex-gay groups capitalized on this idea. Reading stories on Beyond Ex Gay, you found that many people who went through some ex-gay therapies did find help for their addictions, but not for their SSA.

Being gay has nothing to do with various addictions that some client’s may deal with anymore than being straight would.

I hope that was clear – I was writing very quickly

Thank you for that information re: Exodus affiliates. That is helpful. I suppose the best thing a therapist can do then is simply know a great deal about the group to which they might be referring a client – which, as Michael said much earlier, should be done regardless of the type of group it is anyway.

As long as the groups don’t step outside the APA resolutions, I suspect it would be fine to refer them.

The problem is – from my POV – that the things Cameron et al have said are far FAR more abhorrent than those things coming out of the mouth of Wayne Besen.

However – there are plenty of times we have spoken out against certain things Wayne has said on this blog.

For many years, Exodus leadership, it’s own Board of Directors, did not have a public face. It was nothing more than the ‘umbrella’ at the center where affiliates could find each other and gain access to more resources…in short, it was a central clearinghouse.

Very well said, Eddy. That was how it was from the very beginning. We had a map of the USA on the EXODUS office wall at Melodyland — and would add pins as we learned of other ministries. Some of these were just individual ex-gays with a printed testimony and a PO Box — not organizations or structured programs.

Our only criteria for inclusion was the they believed that gay sex was sin and that God could change people. A lot has changed — and remained the same — since then.

An affiliate might be as small as one or two people working together to ‘make a difference’ in some way or it could be large enough to have a staff of a dozen or more. The primary goal and focus of the local ministry could be phone counseling, correspondence counseling, one on one counseling, support groups, or any mixture of these methods. Some had live-in programs where others shunned that idea completely. (As Karen noted earlier, the counseling approach might rely heavily on Nicolosi’s reparative model but it might not. From the guidelines Karen posted, it would seem that the major ruled out approaches involve exploitive touch. It should be noted that, from the Exodus web page, exorcism is also ruled out.)
But the local affiliate doesn’t even have to have a counseling focus. Their primary focus might be evangelism or teaching or educating the local church. We had one woman, although I’m not sure she had official ‘affiliate status’, whose entire ministry focus was intercessory prayer. She tried to keep informed on what was going on in the ministries as a whole and what the major concerns were–also some private ones–and she prayed fervently for them.

For many years, Exodus leadership, it’s own Board of Directors, did not have a public face. It was nothing more than the ‘umbrella’ at the center where affiliates could find each other and gain access to more resources…in short, it was a central clearinghouse. It’s Board of Directors came from its affiliate agencies and needed to be voted in by other affiliates. This was done to ensure that one ministry or one particular point of view would not dominate. I believe this is still true but it’s possible that it may have been modified slightly to include board members who do not come from within the affiliates but from other organizations or churches. (To my dismay, I believe they now have someone from NARTH on their board. I’m encouraged by the fact, though, that it’s a board…no one voice dominates.)

By all means, we can we watchdogs or guardians or whatever. If we are aware of real harm, we can speak up.

Perhaps it is time

.

Then, you will have to accept those speaking up on the other side, as well, Michael. There are legitimate gripes that traverse the spectrum. When extremists with vendettas like Wayne Besen and others shout divisive, off-base messages, they also need to be called on it. And folks have some legitimate concerns about Kevin Jennings, the NEA and its satellites.

Besen whipped up the controversy over Berg and Schoenewolf — I remember well when that happened. He specializes in that sort of thing. Not all of what they said in their essays was bad, but I agree they took it too far without realizing there would be whiplash.

All is fair in love and war. It’s how we do it that matters. That’s what I think we’ve made some progress on (I hope) with these discussions.

FWIW.

OK, so there is a divergence of methods out there. Fine. If they are helping some and we are not able to prove conclusively they are harming others, let’s let them do their thing. By all means, we can we watchdogs or guardians or whatever. If we are aware of real harm, we can speak up. That does not give us license to demonize those we disagree with or go on witch hunts or inquisitions. Agreed, all?

No, Debbie, I cannot. I do not want a “witchhunt” or “inquisition”. It’s not the “divergence of methods” that bothers me. And I cannot say conclusively that either NARTH or Exodus are harming others. I believe that both organizations may help quite a few folks — and that they harm quite a few others. That’s NOT the main issue for me.

It is this: NARTH continues to cite as “experts”, folks like Berger (who advised “teasing and ridiculing” “gender variant” children) and Schoenewolf (who suggested that prior to slavery, blacks were little more than “savages” and that they may have been “better off” under slavery).

Most disturbing of all, is NARTH’s continuing use of Paul Cameron to support NARTH’s work and views. Warren has strongly ciriticized Cameron on this blog.

He has referred to the man as “evil” and has called Cameron’s “solutions” to the gay issue “abhorrent”. And yet, NARTH still uses his material. I have asked, but they refuse to discontinue this practice.

Here is more on Cameron: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,020.htm

To its credit, last year Exodus announced that it had deleted all references to Cameron’s work from the Exodus website — on the basis that his “science” was faulty . I believe they did this largely on the recommendation of Dr. Throckmorton. And it was right that Exodus did so. I commend them for that. But it is not enough.

Exodus said nothing to denounce Cameron’s nazi-sympathetic views or his “abhorrent solutions”. Exodus said nothing of the things this man stands for.

By all means, we can we watchdogs or guardians or whatever. If we are aware of real harm, we can speak up.

Perhaps it is time.

I actually have more problems with NARTH than with Exodus. At least Exodus deleted their references to Cameron, for bad research (without denouncing what Dr. Throckmorton calls his “abhorrent solutions” to the “gay problem”) — something NARTH will not do.