Subscribe to the Christian Newswire and you will find plenty of what Barna was referring to.

Please join me in asking the author to document who these “people” are. General claims are not warranted.

Am I misreading your position as being for civil partnerships and against gay marriage?

I am for civil partnerships. I am not against gay or straight marriage.

Is the church supposed to reflect the culture…or shape it?

I vote for shape it.

Is the church supposed to reflect the culture…or shape it?

(I think you can use the affirmation of gay marriage to justify both positions).

Regarding “hypothetical”…Jayhuck was not being specific; I was hoping he would do so and in the process I wondered allowed, what others “classes” of persons are being denied the “same rights as others.”

And…

Am I misreading your position as being for civil partnerships and against gay marriage?

Thanks.

I’m very curious about ‘most of the laws that limit the freedom and rights of gay people’. The word ‘most’ suggests that there are quite a few

Sorry. I should have said “most of the laws that used to limit…” Past tense.

Sodomy laws are gone. Some years ago, I was fired twice — just for being gay — but now there are laws in California that protect me against that sort of limit to my freedom and rights.

Apart from not being able to marry the person I love, I can’t think of another example. Maybe someone else can.

What I meant is that I don’t even think the old legal structure (that criminalized gay behavior or permiited job discrimination/termination) was necessarily built on hate or bigotry. More like fear and a failure to see SSA folk as deserving of equal treatment under the law..

And I don’t think most of the laws that limit the freedoms and rights of gay people were necessaril enacted out of hate or bigotry. Not that blatant or malevolent.

Just my opinion, but I think we’ve gone to the abstract to the point where the posts are sounding almost Confucian. (Please, don’t jump on that part…that is not and will not be the true point of my post.) I’m very curious about ‘most of the laws that limit the freedom and rights of gay people’. The word ‘most’ suggests that there are quite a few. Can we actually list say 3 or 4 of these laws that limit the freedom and rights of gay people so that we can see the implementation and the direct implications of the hate or bigotry? (Snarky responses will not be tolerated. We seem to be talking about a ‘given’, something we should all know…so it should be easy to cough up 3 or 4 examples for discussion that should help bring the conversation back to earth.) My apologies in advance. Abstract talk fascinates me but I’m always more fascinated by ‘where the rubber meets the road’…how do those abstractions play out? What can/should we do to correct them…and how?