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	<title>Comments on: Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list</title>
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	<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/</link>
	<description>A College Psychology Professor&#039;s Observations About Public Policy, Mental Health, Sexual Identity, and Religious Issues</description>
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		<title>By: Okean Nous</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-339086</link>
		<dc:creator>Okean Nous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 23:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-339086</guid>
		<description>Despite the similarity of her name to the gremlin who ruled and ruined the US at the worst moments for the gay people, Regan seems the most sensible and sensitive person in this virtual space. A university degree, a fancy PhD (or a medical certification -cum an ancient oath taken to &quot;cure&quot; people) does not guarantee that you see things clearly from a balanced perspective, as Dr. Warren T. is &quot;kindly&quot; showing us in his acts backing this pseudo-scientific ex-gay therapy thing. I wonder how much effort has he ever put (or is willing to put) into helping some gay person to fully accept him/herself. I frankly want to learn the exact number of gays he has &quot;helped&quot; that way, not just offering them the psycho-snake-oil treatment he is offering. Medicine and psychology are not as selective as these people claim: for a treatment you need diagnosis and if there is no disease as his Italian pal (spiritually, not in real life, I am guessing of course) is claiming in his song/clip &quot;Luca era gay&quot; (Luca was gay and then understood his mistake...) If it is a mistake to wrongly identify your sexual orientation, it goes both ways: you can come to the understanding that you are not heterosexual. Lo and behold, the pro-ex-gay people  do not want to speak about them as an equally valid &quot;choice&quot; (as the person has tried the rest now has seen the best!!).  Indoctrinated belief messes up so many bright people&#039;s minds even when it is under the cloak of &quot;tolerance and forgiveness of the sin&quot; kind of sweet talk. If I am constantly burdened to prove my worth to others (therefore constantly questioning my worth all the time), then they&#039;d be better doing it in their own comfortable corner. As the ancient Greek wisdom goes: &quot;Ho anexetastos bios ouk biotos&quot; (an unexamined life is not worth living). We are getting our fill of examining day in and day out, so others who are holier than us olease help yourselves with yours!!! Less Bible study, more self-depth search, lower number of self-tortured, oppressed latent gay anti-gay preachers and more freer souls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite the similarity of her name to the gremlin who ruled and ruined the US at the worst moments for the gay people, Regan seems the most sensible and sensitive person in this virtual space. A university degree, a fancy PhD (or a medical certification -cum an ancient oath taken to &#8220;cure&#8221; people) does not guarantee that you see things clearly from a balanced perspective, as Dr. Warren T. is &#8220;kindly&#8221; showing us in his acts backing this pseudo-scientific ex-gay therapy thing. I wonder how much effort has he ever put (or is willing to put) into helping some gay person to fully accept him/herself. I frankly want to learn the exact number of gays he has &#8220;helped&#8221; that way, not just offering them the psycho-snake-oil treatment he is offering. Medicine and psychology are not as selective as these people claim: for a treatment you need diagnosis and if there is no disease as his Italian pal (spiritually, not in real life, I am guessing of course) is claiming in his song/clip &#8220;Luca era gay&#8221; (Luca was gay and then understood his mistake&#8230;) If it is a mistake to wrongly identify your sexual orientation, it goes both ways: you can come to the understanding that you are not heterosexual. Lo and behold, the pro-ex-gay people  do not want to speak about them as an equally valid &#8220;choice&#8221; (as the person has tried the rest now has seen the best!!).  Indoctrinated belief messes up so many bright people&#8217;s minds even when it is under the cloak of &#8220;tolerance and forgiveness of the sin&#8221; kind of sweet talk. If I am constantly burdened to prove my worth to others (therefore constantly questioning my worth all the time), then they&#8217;d be better doing it in their own comfortable corner. As the ancient Greek wisdom goes: &#8220;Ho anexetastos bios ouk biotos&#8221; (an unexamined life is not worth living). We are getting our fill of examining day in and day out, so others who are holier than us olease help yourselves with yours!!! Less Bible study, more self-depth search, lower number of self-tortured, oppressed latent gay anti-gay preachers and more freer souls.</p>
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		<title>By: a messenger</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-321743</link>
		<dc:creator>a messenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-321743</guid>
		<description>Dr. Lively can be removed from the hate list, when he stops hating.  It is as simple as that.  His book is a witness to a psychosis among fundamentalists.  They see they are losing the battle in creating the social conscience of America.  Our children have a clear awareness of fairness towards others, and that includes gays.  They are afraid that being marginalized they will not have a purpose, and irrationally even believe that gays will retaliate against them for years of bigotry, hatred, and pain.  The best thing to do with Dr. Lively is to forgive him.  Again.  And again.  Assure him that he is in no danger, and that as a society we will do everything possible to protect him and his kind.  Hopefully this will keep him calm enough, so that he doesn&#039;t do anything really foolish and harmful.  God bless poor Dr. Lively</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Lively can be removed from the hate list, when he stops hating.  It is as simple as that.  His book is a witness to a psychosis among fundamentalists.  They see they are losing the battle in creating the social conscience of America.  Our children have a clear awareness of fairness towards others, and that includes gays.  They are afraid that being marginalized they will not have a purpose, and irrationally even believe that gays will retaliate against them for years of bigotry, hatred, and pain.  The best thing to do with Dr. Lively is to forgive him.  Again.  And again.  Assure him that he is in no danger, and that as a society we will do everything possible to protect him and his kind.  Hopefully this will keep him calm enough, so that he doesn&#8217;t do anything really foolish and harmful.  God bless poor Dr. Lively</p>
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		<title>By: H. (Bart) Vincelette</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-270705</link>
		<dc:creator>H. (Bart) Vincelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 23:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-270705</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to express my respect &amp; admiration for the insightful &amp; informed messages herein. I&#039;m a gay Canadian man living in Vancouver. San Diego was also home for many years. Like many others I have seen the tactics &amp; irrational thinking of the right wing , through the years. This message may not be part of cuurent events , but I do not want what I consider to be a major defining moment for the religious right , to be forgotten or shoved under the proverbial rug. A gay New York writer (whose name escapes me) , said a number of years ago that it will be important to pay attention to the recording of our history , or others will begin to tell us how it happened.
          During the early years of the AIDS epidemic , conservative Christians fiercely &amp; successfully opposed the use of any public funds for HIV research. The subsequent delay in acquring effective treatment options denied thousands even a fighting chance at survival. Through the years I have buried fifty-seven of the finest men you could ever hope to know in life , &amp; have the privilege of calling friends.
        The conservative religious of any faith , are to the milk of human kindness what Josef Mengele was to sound medical research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to express my respect &amp; admiration for the insightful &amp; informed messages herein. I&#8217;m a gay Canadian man living in Vancouver. San Diego was also home for many years. Like many others I have seen the tactics &amp; irrational thinking of the right wing , through the years. This message may not be part of cuurent events , but I do not want what I consider to be a major defining moment for the religious right , to be forgotten or shoved under the proverbial rug. A gay New York writer (whose name escapes me) , said a number of years ago that it will be important to pay attention to the recording of our history , or others will begin to tell us how it happened.<br />
          During the early years of the AIDS epidemic , conservative Christians fiercely &amp; successfully opposed the use of any public funds for HIV research. The subsequent delay in acquring effective treatment options denied thousands even a fighting chance at survival. Through the years I have buried fifty-seven of the finest men you could ever hope to know in life , &amp; have the privilege of calling friends.<br />
        The conservative religious of any faith , are to the milk of human kindness what Josef Mengele was to sound medical research.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Fischer and the Nazis: This is what I meant by vilification &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-269727</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Fischer and the Nazis: This is what I meant by vilification &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 16:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-269727</guid>
		<description>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bussee</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-224166</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bussee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 06:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-224166</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s going to have to try harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s going to have to try harder.</p>
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		<title>By: The Pink Swastika and Hitler &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-197372</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pink Swastika and Hitler &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-197372</guid>
		<description>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Pink Swastika and Hate 2 Hope &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-196696</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pink Swastika and Hate 2 Hope &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-196696</guid>
		<description>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Pink Swastika and the Hidden Holocaust? &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-195259</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pink Swastika and the Hidden Holocaust? &#8212; Warren Throckmorton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-195259</guid>
		<description>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May 28 &#8211; Scott Lively wants off SPLC hate group list [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie Thurman</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-194915</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie Thurman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-194915</guid>
		<description>Wow, Regan. You say a lot in your post above. Definitely much food for thought there. Some of it is deep. I had to read it several times.

I agree with you in many regards.  The Christian community has overburdened the gay community with the need to prove they are authentic, while many Christians are unaware of their own inauthenticity. Good point. I&#039;m not sure how many of the BTG blogs you looked at. There&#039;s a mountain of stuff to wade through there. But the seed of something deeply meaningful has been planted.

Perhaps we are seeing the beginnings of a sea change in this whole debate. Clearly, changes need to happen. Both sides have done damage. This is an awfully big ship to turn around, so we will need to be patient.

I don&#039;t think the church has placed ALL the burden on the gay community. I know of a number of non-gay Christians who have quietly (perhaps too quietly) gone about seeking to build that bridge for a while now. This is not a boulder we will move overnight. Neither, I hope, are we like the mythical Sispyhus, rolling it up the eternal hill, only to see it fall back down again. 

Time will have to tell. I plan to commit much prayer to this effort and do what God speaks to my heart to do. I hope others will commit to doing the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Regan. You say a lot in your post above. Definitely much food for thought there. Some of it is deep. I had to read it several times.</p>
<p>I agree with you in many regards.  The Christian community has overburdened the gay community with the need to prove they are authentic, while many Christians are unaware of their own inauthenticity. Good point. I&#8217;m not sure how many of the BTG blogs you looked at. There&#8217;s a mountain of stuff to wade through there. But the seed of something deeply meaningful has been planted.</p>
<p>Perhaps we are seeing the beginnings of a sea change in this whole debate. Clearly, changes need to happen. Both sides have done damage. This is an awfully big ship to turn around, so we will need to be patient.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the church has placed ALL the burden on the gay community. I know of a number of non-gay Christians who have quietly (perhaps too quietly) gone about seeking to build that bridge for a while now. This is not a boulder we will move overnight. Neither, I hope, are we like the mythical Sispyhus, rolling it up the eternal hill, only to see it fall back down again. </p>
<p>Time will have to tell. I plan to commit much prayer to this effort and do what God speaks to my heart to do. I hope others will commit to doing the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/05/28/scott-lively-wants-off-splc-hate-group-list/comment-page-1/#comment-194812</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=4018#comment-194812</guid>
		<description>Hi Debbie, I came I saw, I read the different entries. 

     I remember something I said to some very anti gay people: the difference between myself and them was I listened, I didn&#039;t KNOW everything and was certain of nothing about gay people if it didn&#039;t come directly FROM gay people.

    This situation is treated as if believers have been silent, somehow isolated and never given enough of the floor of the collective societal consciousness to make a difference. As if participating in a life in faith is an alternative to being gay...or even non Christian or non religious.

       No, being a believer is supposed to THE life, and everything else is considered broken and worthless or illegitimate.

     That reaching the consciousness of the very people who CREATED homophobia is a burden placed on the wrong party.

       I think we can learn a lot, if this synchroblog is sincere about bridging gaps is to mind not only the children and how they go about things, but to let those children teach us.
 Children, unadulterated by intense scrutiny of their own peers, will be direct about their curiosity and much more fearless.
    They will love who is kind and good to them, and they don&#039;t care what that person is or looks like.

   For the most part, the control and deprivation expected towards gay people is called love, and yet, faith communities are upset when gay people reject it. Especially when they are confronted with loving, connected couples and families who don&#039;t have make ANY of the sacrifices a gay person is expected to.

     There is a commercial running now showing a man and two little girls at a table. He asks one if she&#039;d like a pony and he hands her a tiny  plastic one. He asks the other little girl the same question and a live, beautiful pony is brought into the room. Leaving the other little girl to look at the plastic replica with disappointment.
The tag?
&quot;Even children know when something isn&#039;t equal.&quot;
There are all kinds of hypocritical and contradictory messages sent out with regard to the lives of gay people and who threatens who and who is more suspicious.
    At least in the commercial, those children have an opportunity to compare.   We are conditioned in faith communities to take the word of an intangible entity, yet disavow what a flesh and blood gay person says or does right in front of us.

       A bridge assumes an opportunity for both sides to visit each other. Perhaps somewhere in the middle. 
 Maybe.
But so far ALL the effort has been on gay people for far too long.

  Defending gay folks is about undoing a lot of damage...and if there is a sea change here, neither party will have to defend themselves at all.
That IS the point, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Debbie, I came I saw, I read the different entries. </p>
<p>     I remember something I said to some very anti gay people: the difference between myself and them was I listened, I didn&#8217;t KNOW everything and was certain of nothing about gay people if it didn&#8217;t come directly FROM gay people.</p>
<p>    This situation is treated as if believers have been silent, somehow isolated and never given enough of the floor of the collective societal consciousness to make a difference. As if participating in a life in faith is an alternative to being gay&#8230;or even non Christian or non religious.</p>
<p>       No, being a believer is supposed to THE life, and everything else is considered broken and worthless or illegitimate.</p>
<p>     That reaching the consciousness of the very people who CREATED homophobia is a burden placed on the wrong party.</p>
<p>       I think we can learn a lot, if this synchroblog is sincere about bridging gaps is to mind not only the children and how they go about things, but to let those children teach us.<br />
 Children, unadulterated by intense scrutiny of their own peers, will be direct about their curiosity and much more fearless.<br />
    They will love who is kind and good to them, and they don&#8217;t care what that person is or looks like.</p>
<p>   For the most part, the control and deprivation expected towards gay people is called love, and yet, faith communities are upset when gay people reject it. Especially when they are confronted with loving, connected couples and families who don&#8217;t have make ANY of the sacrifices a gay person is expected to.</p>
<p>     There is a commercial running now showing a man and two little girls at a table. He asks one if she&#8217;d like a pony and he hands her a tiny  plastic one. He asks the other little girl the same question and a live, beautiful pony is brought into the room. Leaving the other little girl to look at the plastic replica with disappointment.<br />
The tag?<br />
&#8220;Even children know when something isn&#8217;t equal.&#8221;<br />
There are all kinds of hypocritical and contradictory messages sent out with regard to the lives of gay people and who threatens who and who is more suspicious.<br />
    At least in the commercial, those children have an opportunity to compare.   We are conditioned in faith communities to take the word of an intangible entity, yet disavow what a flesh and blood gay person says or does right in front of us.</p>
<p>       A bridge assumes an opportunity for both sides to visit each other. Perhaps somewhere in the middle.<br />
 Maybe.<br />
But so far ALL the effort has been on gay people for far too long.</p>
<p>  Defending gay folks is about undoing a lot of damage&#8230;and if there is a sea change here, neither party will have to defend themselves at all.<br />
That IS the point, right?</p>
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